Yeah, that memphis team was awful. They had three other guys get drafted. They were a veteran team that made it deep the previous year without Rose. Why don't you go back and watch some videos and come chat with me then.

You really havent said anything here. Earlier, you said that Rose is "finding" a 12 ft jump shot midway through his second year in the NBA. Somehow we are now talking about Tyrus Thomas holding his wrist out. Please explain how one has to do with the other. I don't know what game you are watching where Derrick Rose can't hit a 12 foot jumper or is just finding one. Either way, unless I take about 10 valium, I dont think I can dumb myself down enough for us to discuss this.

:zz: :zz: :wf

don't they have internet access or papers in DC? His life is pretty much messed up in case you missed his mad max escapade in the summer. He broke his finger too so he's missed a lot of time this year due to both mental problems and physical problems. He's actually played pretty well at times and is still undoubtedly their best backcourt defender. But I'm not thinking anyone claimed he was an all star. Just if someone thinks someone is better than you think is pretty much all that is. Cleveland has better players deeper on the bench this year than last year which is why I got into this thread in the first place. That is why they are where they are.

His stats this year arent too much different than his whole career. Maybe he breaks fingers and has mental breakdowns annually.

Season 36 23.4 98-220 .445 16-39 .410 54-65 .831 0.3 2.0 2.3 1.00 .56 1.39 1.33 3.0 7.4
Career 340 28.5 1284-2875 .447 328-865 .379 484-589 .822 0.5 2.5 3.1 1.08 .44 1.64 2.04 3.7 9.9

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...?playerId=2422

Please...lets not go back to arguing the merits of Delonte West. If you want to be as boring and as useless, why don't we argue the merits of Tony Allen.

Hey, TA is an outstanding defender and is probably the only guy on the whole goddamn team who's actually overachieved this season! Sigh.

They are the same player although maybe Tony Allen doesnt break fingers and have a need for psychotropic medication.

Both are decent little players. Neither is essential to their respective team's success and many teams in the NBA have a similar player. Discussing their merits is useless and boring.

How about Amare? I would like to talk about Stoudamire a little bit.

Well, you just did with much hilarity.

You're pretty much a fake. He's playing 23 minutes a game this year down 10 minutes this year. He has mental problems. They've been documented. When he plays 30-35 minutes a game he scores 11-12 points a game. Always has for whatever team he has played with. They have seemed to have played better with Delonte West on the roster than Larry Hughes whom he replaced in the rotation...yes you can go back and pull posts where I didn't like that trade when it was made but I was wrong.

He is what he is. He has been a better player for Cleveland than Larry Hughes. That's all I'm looking at. His performance on the floor isn't really the problem with him. I agree with you he is not a first ballot hall of famer.

why? He's boring too.

Did you have to call me names? Not nice.

Anyway, I think Amare's result is the key not only to the trade deadline but also could be a big key to the offseason.

In the end, I'm not sure really how much the Cavs want Amare. I think deep down they want Miami to jump in and go above the Cavs offer to get him then hope Miami signs him long term which would entice Wade to stay in Miami and preclude a Wade/LeBron to NY or something like that. In all honesty I think that is more what they want, then they can trade for Jamison which is what they wanted to do all along. Most likely I'm incorrect though!! (I never said you were boring just Amare! yeah, you're real sensitive about stuff aren't you!)

I think they want Jamison as well. I read today where they are talking about Corey Magette now as well. To me, its all smoke. They want Washington to give them Jamison for an expiring contract which at the end of the day is what will probably happen. Washington isnt cooperating...yet. If I'm washington, I would probably settle for a late draft pick along with Z and call it a day at some point.

Amare is a post microfracture guy that wants a max deal. Im not sure he is worth that at this point.

Yeah, in the end the Cavs have decided they will only include Hickson in a Phoenix trade. Both Washington and Indiana want Hickson in deals for Jamison or Murphy. The Cavs would I'm certain deal Z and a first rounder for Jamison but nothing else. It's just up to Washington.

http://www.82games.com/0809/ROLRTG8.HTM

Home | Teams/Players | Commentary | Contact Us


Sortable "Roland Ratings"
While we never advocate reliance on 'overall rating' type metrics for players since we believe that "fit" within a team's roster and coaching schemes, financial considerations and other factors play a considerable part in player evaluation, it can be useful to gauge quickly how a player stacks up in certain statistical categories. The main components of the 'Roland Ratings' are a production measure (a variant of John Hollinger's PER rating) for a player's own stats versus the counterpart player on the other team while he is on the court, as well as a simple on court/off court plus minus. This rating is actually more of a placeholder until the more sophisticated analysis we produce is made public, but still offers a good fast read on player performance.

This is an advanced metric rating system which had West rated tied for the 34th most important player for his team in the league for last season. Tied with 2 pretty fair players, Paul Pierce and Amar'e Stoudemire. As it says above the rating system isnt perfect but Dala's idea that he is just an average NBA player or isnt important to Cleveland seems to not jive with the numbers. He was in the top 10% of the league and signifigantly higher than Trevor Ariza. As I said before the rating is not the end all of end all's but does show that West is a far better and far more valuable player than he is given credit for by someone we know. And the performance of Richard Hamilton and Joe Johnson in last years playoffs (they were in effect shutdown by West) also seems to elude her.

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809CLE5.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0809/BYPOSIT.HTM


Also note that the Cavs production by position SG (which was primarily West last season) was ranked 5th in the league in terms of production by position.

I found this for you dala....

"I get a huge ovation everywhere I go......I was walking into a public restroom out there at the airport and I heard clapping....I'm like, Y'all clapping to see me take a number 2?!? That's all right" - Delonte West

Dalante West

She is just prejudiced against redheads






I will definitely get called a few choice names now....

My midsesaon thoughts are that Ed Stefanski should be left dead where he stands for not getting rid of Slugadola and Dalembert for McGrady's expiring contract...Granted Dalemberts expires after next year too (i believe) but how could you pass up a chance to send Sluggy packing for the coin that you are paying him? He should be no better than the 2nd or 3rd best player on a team, not your focal point tht throws up LAUGHABLE shots...Ed Stefanksi, weasel of the week..

Jamison to Cavs done.

Nate to Celtics supposedly done.

Mcgrady to Knicks? If they Knicks give up 2 unprotected first round picks for his giant expiring contract there is virtually no doubt that they wont get LeBron, Wade, Bosh or anyone else worth a damn. It just works that way with the Knicks.

Darko's corpse to Minnesota

Salmons to Bucks for expiring contracts

Hinrich to lakers?

Donnie Walsh is no dummy. He knows something the rest of us don't know.

As a Knicks fan I remain skeptical. They have finally erased most of Isiah's mistakes yet have also given up all of thier 1st round picks in the near future.

And, knowing Walsh, do you really think he does that without a plan? That guy has a plan for going to the bathroom. I'm not saying Lebron is going there. All I am saying is that there will be two max contracts in New York this summer. That I would wager on.

There are only 3 guys worth max contracts and I just dont see 2 of them going to NY. Personally I think that they had no choice but to purge that roster and free up cap space. But If they dont get Lebron or Wade they are still going to have to come up with a team. And how many teams can be built strictly via trades and free agency?

I just saw the Bulls trades. They did exactly what they needed to do. Got rid of Thomas and Salmons.

I can't believe they did something that actually worked out well for them. Gar Forman for President!@ :)

But thats my point. This isn't Wes Unseld or Isaiah riding this horse. This is Donnie Walsh. Is he really going to give away unprotected draft picks to free up that kind of space when all he has to rely on is hope especially considering those contracts would be gone by the following summer anyway?

Walsh has been given some kind of assurance that he will have a reasonable shot at landing two big free agents. That is pure speculation but that guy has a track record for being smarter than most everyone else in the room.

I think the Knicks stuff is awesome. We will get to return to the LeBron is DEFINITELY going to NY stories nonstop again. I have heard it already in the national media. Good stuff.

I'm just waiting for the playoff implosion. The cavs have overcome the worst bench coach to ever grace the hardwood. Once the real season starts he will get his pants coached off again. Lebron will leave and we will be stuck w Z, 83 year old Shaq. Delante should be in prison by next year so I suppose we can rebuild around jamario moon. If that's not depressing enough w/ spring right around the corner Shapiro has another AAA team ready to play .333 ball. A manager who was probably the worst availible. Maybe we will find another cy young winner to trade. If I want to go back for thirds we have anoter year of mangini!

In brigrer news the Cleveland gladiators, of arena league fame just signed a new qb. Apparently he was MVP of the arena league bowl 8 seasons ago. I'm hanging my hat on that for now

You guys have a lingere football team?

and no, the answer to that is not "Yes, the Browns"

We have it all bob. You never hear about them because we are perpetual losers. I still remeber the indoor soccer championships like it was yesterday.

http://www.lflus.com/chicagobliss/

This is our team.

Chuck-

Those tickets sure would have been nice. ;)

Yeah you and gales have something in common. You love the chalk.

Now Miami was chalk back in february when i predicted this?

You can't just say, "you were right and I was wrong on this one"?

You said Chicago and I offered a wager on it. You then said the reason that you wouldnt bet is was because Chicago would have to get rid of the heinrich and Thomas contracts. They did indeed rid themselves of both contracts and still Bosh and Wade end up in Miami.

Come on Chuck...even if its by PM, you have to admit...

Give me a break. When I brought up Chicago they didnt have any cap space. Everything was hypothetical. The fact that Wade resigned with Miami was 1-9 at the time of the posts and 2-5 recently. You wanted to me to make a bet based on hypotheticals and you took the chalk. I never said that it would happen, especially since at the time it couldnt. I said it was a possibility and you refused to even acknowledge that. The irony is that you told me that NBA teams werent made that way and yet there was an NBA team (chicago) trying to do exactly as I said they would (get rid of the deadwood on the roster, free up cap space and signing Lebron and Bosh or Wade and Bosh). Yet you claim to have been "right"?

That is funnier than Gales ignoring 4 all stars on the DL.

My offer

Your reply.

spray!!

:wf:wf

I guess Wade and Bosh liked my scenario a little better than yours. No?

^^^^Her scenario is very wet.