The Classic has the potential to be an amazing betting race if Sea the Stars, Zenyatta, and Summer Bird all run. They'd all take a ton of money and be huge play againsts.

Are you kidding me? STS is almost unbeatable over that track.

I agree with some of that. But to say he had a nice career is a bit of an understatement. He won the Preakness in his what, 5th career start? He won the Jockey Club Gold Cup and the BC Classic as a 3yo, then trounced the field in the world's richest race.

Very, very few horses show up in February in a 3 year old maiden race and do the things he did the rest of the year. While he didn't beat much at 4, he certainly did at 3.

That's Sadler's version. There's quite a bit he's leaving out. Everyone should reserve judgement about how Summer Bird gets over Santa Anita until they see him working.

But Ice on attheracesandbeyond was quoted as saying he doesn't think it will bother him at all. So who do you believe...

What Sadler's saying could easily be wrong but based on what has been effective on the Pro-Ride for years, I don't think Summer Bird's style will play well.

NT

I understand what you're saying here, but Rachel's prior connections have been vilified because *gasp* they didn't wish to run against colts. That is not what Mr. Morrison said. He did not want to run her in the TC, but would entertain later races against colts. Somehow, the last part of what he said was lost, but the man did say that. I think the way Mr. Morrison has been portrayed is unfair, because he never actually ruled out running her against colts. Just not the TC.

I think Summer Bird's obviously a very nice horse, and will cherish my Summer Bird vs. Dunkirk touts of the Derby and Belmont, but I'm just not a believer of this horse when it comes to the Classic this year. He's a serious contender for 2010 though. If some random Euro doesn't win the Classic this year, I'd be shocked.

True but in 1980 that would mean a lot more than now. Winning older horse races in the fall as a 3 yo really isnt much of an accomplishment when the 3 yos are better horses. No one is saying that his career was anything but successful, hell he only finished off the board 1 time but compared to truly accomplished horses he doesnt really stack up that well. Plus the way he tailed off and struggled with clearly inferior horses at the tail end of a 16 race career is telling.

I dont know how anyone can tell if a horse likes an artificial surface until they run over it in the afternoon.

I have to disagree with this, the horses that seem to do well in general on poly/synth are one's that can reserve their energy in the body of their races and then make a 3/8ths surge when the real running starts. I don't know if SB's stride will take to pro ride but I surmise he will get the former part right atleast.

i.e., horses who prefer turf to dirt...

Or horses more like Midnight Lute and less like Fabulous Strike.

Doesn't that hold true for any of the surfaces?

You've seen Summer Bird unleash a powerful 3 furlong surge? I've completely missed it because his best efforts have been when he was able to stalk, make a gradual move and gallop his foes into the ground.

NT

I understand your point and agree that is his strength, however I don't think it's wise to say he can't have a more quicker move on synth. I think it's widely understood that it is harder to quicken on dirt than it is on synth and or turf. We just have to wait and see how he works on it, he's got the right jockey for that style in Kent, he's just about the best at reserving a horse and bullrushing him into a hole when he wants to.

another thing I think people forget is how much weight voters put on the Breeder's Cup. How many horses have won awards based soley on their BC performance. Thor's Echo comes to mind.

He needed the DeFrancis Dash to earn that title.

no

sure they do, when they can't name another race in that category...it's not as tho many outside hard core race fans know that a race like the king's bishop exists.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't say he struggled because he was tailing off. In each race, the others obviously knew he was the horse to beat and rode to try to beat him. The pace was very, very slow in the Foster and JCGC and he still overcame it. In the Woodward, it was insanely fast.

You should know margin of victory doesn't always indicate how superior a horse is. Of course, those who think RA can't get 10f based on the results of the Preakness and Woodward are making the same mistake.

Bush-league call by Jackson

Track will be dry and fair at Anita ... weather will be gorgeous

BIGGEST day on the racing calendar ... multiple international runners suiting up ... and the 'great' filly will be standing around in some barn in KY.

Disgraceful


If Jackson actually believes that the racing surface beat Curlin last year, he simply hasn't come to grips with reality yet.


Would love to see Birdie roll ... and the voters penalize Jackson for not letting the filly compete at the WORLD THOROUGHBRED CHAMPIONSHIPS...

The Breeder's Cup has sabotaged so many formerly great races, I think it is a good thing that a great horse intentionally skips it. It is even better since the BC sabotaged itself by running the races on rubber two years in a row.

Imagine if the first Breeder's Cup had been run on turf, which is a lot closer to synthetics than dirt. Would it have taken off like it did? My guess is no, so why now are we supposed to pretend dirt racing doesn't matter because it is being run on a surface nothing like dirt for two years running?

i dont get how you give Rachel no credit for kicking the crap outta summer bird, and then say his last two races are this and that when she kicked the crap out of him the race before his last two races! Its like you feel he got SOOO much better between the Haskel and Travers when he is the same horse!

It makes no sense. She ran over the SAME horse who won the Travers and JCGC. SB is a real nice colt, but damn, the performance on the race track just doesnt cut it for ya does it?

thank you!

I sit here and I read this **** and I just shake my head. HOW EXACTLY is SB a 'real nice' horse? Or, even better than that, according to some? Who has he beaten? The older horses all suck. He got the best possible setup in the Belmont. And, he basically beat nothing in his past 2 races. The Travers field was a ****in joke. Unless, of course, we want to think along with all the 'speed' freaks that Quality Road is a superstar on anything other than a souped up speed favoring track.

I really want to see SB run in the Classic and try to ***** his way to another perfect trip against some of the more talented, long winded Euro's. Enough with this plug.

POLY will expose this plug for what it is: an OPPORTUNISTIC DIRT runner. Sooner or later all these horses have to show what they have on a FAIR surface. And, seeing how so many of the DIRT LOVERS are constantly whining about POLY, I guess they don't like their 'fast horses' getting bent over in fair races. Sucks when you're accustomed to betting the BIASED way. Times are changing.

He probably won over 7 figures with that 9/2 shot Saturday because he is strutting around here like a Steven H Crist/Andy Beyer love child.

To say Summer Bird is a plug is borderline retarded.

[quote=Antitrust32]I love it when people refer to the Haskell as the defining race in the legacy of how much better(not my belief however)Rachel is to Summer Bird based on one isolated race, how's this scenario SB kicked the crap out of Macho Again in The JCGC, a horse that Rachel was life and death to beat in the Woodward a month earlier, thus Summer Bird must have improved(actually he has) since the Haskell that Rachel isn't in the same league as him now.(present tense)

That's the problem with looking at things in black and white. There is no medium ground, no room for common sense analysis. Just as it is illogical to not see that Summer Bird improved since The Haskell, that the track at Monmouth favored RA more than SB, and that that race was at 1 1/8 and not the 1 1/4 of the JCBC all at a time when he was still getting better.(present tense) You go keep believing RA is 7 lengths better than Summer Bird is, that's cool with me, and I'll go on not believing that Summer Bird is 10 lengths better the RA since he beat Macho Again by pole Sat. Which makes more sense?

[quote=CSC]
He won the Classic Belmont, then "developed" in the Haskell, and then won the Travers & JCGC.

You make no sense. He only "developed" in that race because its the only way you can make your argument.

To be fair in recompense, did it really require much developing for Summer Bird to dispatch with Dunkirk, Mine that Bird, and Charitable Man in the Belmont?

yes, she will NOT be in the BC. If she had been in full training for the month of September I would say I guess there could be a possibility of Jackson changing his mind, but since she has not been in full training she will 100% not be there.

I'd love to know how anyone could say that the track playing more towards Rachel Alexandra's strengths helped her beat SB in the Haskell when the fact of the matter is that they were basically eyeball to eyeball around the turn. If anything, he was short from running in two Triple Crown races, but she ran in the Oaks and Preakness herself.

The excuse wagon could go on and on and on but the bottom line is that Rachel Alexandra beat Summer Bird like a drum at Mth. Is he a better horse now? Probably but unfortunately we'll have to wait until next year to find out if he's now better than her.

NT

[quote=Antitrust32]Is it fair to say that Curlin was a more developed horse at the BC his three year old year than he was at Monmouth a few months earlier? Was Tiznow the same horse at the BC in 2000 as he was in the Pacific classic a few months earlier?

I think you can find plenty of examples, especially in three year olds, where there is rapid development and improvement within just a few months.

Wow! I get all this for calling SB a "real nice colt". What am I supposed to call the Belmont/Travers/JCGC winner? He sucks?

And I agree that he will not win the Classic. Every single post I've made about him and the classic were the same as what you just said.

He deserves credit for the races he's won. He's a real nice colt. He's no Rachel and he wont be winning the classic. The best turf horse out there will be winning the classic.

Why do you hate dirt so much and do you really feel that Poly plays like a dirt track more than a turf track? Poly is basically Turf II

[quote=Antitrust32]You fail to understand he is a better horse today(present) than he was in the Haskell or Belmont, what is hard to accept or understand about this from a 3 yr old colt that broke his Mdn in Mar of this yr? Again not to reiterate The JCGC and The BC Classic is at 1 1/4 a he distance he has already proven to be very adept at running at. RA hasn't and I suspect she will have to one day so that Jess can have his legacy preserved for her.

Hey, that's what I said! Stop stealing my stuff!

Do you like though his Macho Again analogy where he completely disregards what happened in those two races?

And his adamant refusal to address that?

[quote=dalakhani]The point is alot of smart handicappers here recognize Summer Bird was a better horse in the Travers and JCGC, showing tractibility, stamina, and finish in those races, the beyers will of 110-111 will back this up. The issue we are addressing here is, is to the crowd that still believe that RA is 7 lengths better than SB is, my point all along as much as people keep wanting to make this a Haskell argument, is that in the present day, looking forward RA would have had an extreme challenge beating Summer Bird today and had she run in the JCGC she would have lost, This is what I am talking about future races, the races to come, not what has happened.

On the refusal to address issues, I wrote you a nice long reply yesterday you ignored, you out of smart replies? Other than 'you make no sense'. Just brillant!

You are so full of **** it flows out of your eyes.

I guess Easy Goer was a plug, too.