Thanks Travis, however it is an easy position to take if you really believe it and I really believe in this horse at that distance and that track. I think RA has a few things to prove yet, no matter how brilliant she has been thus far. I suspect I may have to go offline Sat-Sun because of the possible love in on this board after she wins the Woodward. I won't rehash the reasons, really I am tired of saying the same things over and over again however creatively I try to deliver them. One thing I will add with the Beyer argument, the discrepancy once grand canyon like is not so large at all. 110 and 117 is not an insurmountable difference in horseracing and I don't see why any knowledgable horseracing person as we have many on this board would say he would be trounced by her so matter of factly.

If she was truly a great horse ... and her connections had any balls ... as a prep for the Woodward... they would have entered her in both the AP Smithwick and NY Turf Writers and she'd have swept both of them while fencing perfectly.

Not the Summer Bird that showed up at The Traver's, the only thing we can on is The Preakness RA Held on, you all can try and convince yourselfs she was in totall control but she held on and if that race was a 1 1/4 she loses, plain and simple. Summer Bird loves the extra distance.

At a 1 1/8 RA wins 1 1/4 Beating Summer Bird like a drum? I don't think so.

:tro:

The track was fair to all styles in the Haskell.


Yes ... they will surely be more impressed with Zenyatta for ducking the Hollywood Gold Cup while her stablemate Life Is Sweet was entered .. so she could take on laughing stock competition of her own gender.

I doubt this is true. PG1985 has a better handle on things than 90% of the voters.

Rachel Alexandra was open lengths the best in the Preakness ... and had every right to throw in the towell late after dueling with a VERY fast horse in Big Drama through very fast fractions and being forced very wide into the 1st turn.

Yes - with Big Drama as his rabbit - Summer Bird might have a shot to beat RA at 10 furlongs. In a fairly run race though - he can't compete.

This is handicaping 101 stuff.

The rail was not the place to be that day. Summer Bird pressed the pace on the worst part of the track.

Well hopefully if RA does well on Saturday they will point her to the JCGC and she can answer her distance question.

Using your logic Tiago was superior to Curlin.

The Summer Bird today is a much better horse than Mine That Bird was in the Preakness. Can't compete? I'm getting a barrel full of laughs today and it's only barely past noon.

You mean pre Dubai or post Dubai? 2 different horses.

Edit-BTW it isn't my logic, I'm just using the same old excuse everyone else does when comparing horses.

The rail was probably where you wanted to be if anything.

I thought Borel was smart to get RA right on top of the rail turning for home - and finish on it.

Duke of Mischief saved ground throughout and finished just 2.5 lengths back of Summer Bird.

The only place he was any different was on the different surfaces. Dubai had no effect on Curlin.

After the heavy rains came, horses racing off the rail appeared to have a distinct advantage. While non-favored winners such as Jersey Town, Actin Good, Endymion and D'Wild Ride all took the overland route to victory, short-priced speedsters such as Despite the Odds, Sunday Geisha and Man of Danger did not fare well racing inside.

Where Rachel ran in the stretch was of no consequence given her superiority that day.

No-factor Papa Clem offered a mild rally outside; no-factor Duke of Mischief offered a mild rally inside. Neither probably means anything in terms of trying to assess preferred paths that day.

What's most laugh worthy is your contradictions.

Typing about Cigar you posted the following ....


Typing about Rachel Alexandra you say ....



Last I checked ... Cigar was 1-for-11 lifetime on turf and was getting blown out by 8 lengths in allowance races before switching to dirt and becoming a star.

Yet he's a versatile horse who's "as honest as the higher power has ever created" ....

While Rachel Alexandra is "one-dimensional" and inferior to Careless Jewel and Zenyatta because her lifetime record is only 1-for-1 on synthetics.


CSC feels like an elaborate ploy to keep Blackthroatedwind from posting here.

Firstly, What does this have to do with the Summer Bird and RA argument? Secondly individually selectively quotes and placing them in the wrong context to try to hurt someone's credibility because you may be getting hot under the collar is not what I expected from you. If I am wrong I am sorry, but this is a discussion and I hold no hard feelings once I am logged on or off.

Thank you Drugs.

The Haskell was race 13. The winners of races 11, 12 and 14 all raced inside.

Summer Bird and Duke of Mischief were certainly not hindered by any path bias. After the rain came much earlier in the day it appeared that the outside might have offered a little better footing .. but as the day went on and track was taken care of.. the inside was just fine at the very least.

Seriously, Drugs--how do you deal with these morons? They are worse than those horsey broads on the AOL of old. They have no idea whatsoever what they saw in the Preakness.

JFC. I'd kill-filter these dolts, but, unfortunately, you still get all the replies to them.

It shows that you are making no sense at all.



For the record .. I'm not "hot under the collar" in the least and I'm not concerned with attacking your board cred.




It is Mr. DrugS to you.

I guess we may have to agree to disagree. But Get Serious winning at 3-5 by a neck over a turf horse like Kiss the Kid after getting away with a 49 half probably does not support the conclusion that the rail was OK. If anything, under the circumstances (and his previously shown affinity for slop at Monmouth), you'd probably expect him to win by a wider margin.

:zz:

Did you watch the Preakness?

not just that but.... How the hell would the Preakness have been the best possible place to win?

Two weeks off a huge romp that SCREAMED BOUNCE and a trainer change! Going a pretty far distance against boys.

Some of the stuff I hear on here makes PG1985 look brilliant.

If the Mother Goose had been 1 1/4 and Summer Bird was in the race she would have beat him by 15. She was so fast that day its insane.

If the Haskell had been 1 1/4 she would have won by a dozen.

People need to check out her final times and SB's final times. While SB is a really nice colt who I like... they arent on the same planet.

Final times? Oh god.

The last two dirt Beyers Get Serious ran were 82 and 69. The last two dirt Beyers Kiss The Kid ran were 93 and 99.

Kiss The Kid was 2-for-2 on wet tracks with Beyers of 101 and 99. Get Serious was 1-for-3 on wet tracks.

Get Serious wasn't exactly loose .. Kiss The Kid was a half length back.


Get Serious ran a 69 Beyer the last time he raced on a wet Monmouth Park track.

I didn't expect Get Serious to beat Kiss the Kid by any margin even with the pace advantage and inside position. Get Serious is a turf horse.

Since Forbes has taken over the training of Get Serious .. he's run Beyers of 97, 101, and 103 in his 3 turf races.

This is all great and all, but I still I don't get it, how does this exactly relate to Rachel Alexandra beating Summer Bird like a drum if they meet in the JCGC? Mr. DrugS...

That is a fine question.

And something you should answer since you're the one who posted the surface argument in your attempts to undermine Rachel.

You're right on this horse. I confused him with Actin Good (winner on BC undercard).

In addition, I don't agree in the correalation between grass being equal to synthetics when it comes to comparing Cigar to RA.

My argument is I believe dirt and poly should be synomonous or atleast closer than dirt/turf.

I missed a part of your reply, here's my answer:

I introduced it towards the argument of Zenyatta mostly, it would seem to be a contradiction at first however Cigar on the other hand I think we can agree was campaigned agressively during his career. I don't think it's the same thing comparing him to RA. Who knows if there were poly back then he would have been bad on it, maybe he would have been good on it, we just don't know. However Zenyatta did win the Apple Blossom, a significant stakes race and RA has not yet on 2 surfaces.

And it is just CSC to you, no Mr.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well he doesnt want to look at Beyers, which show who is the faster horse... Why not look at final times? People judge great horses on how fast they run. If you dont believe that then your helpless. How often do you hear about Big Red's time in the Derby/Preakness/Belmont when talking about greatness.

Her Beyers are better than Summer Bird, her race times have been much faster, the only other thing she could do to prove she's better is beat him head to head. Oh right, she trounced him already, just a month ago.

I believe that in all sports, whenever there is a tie for something, the first tie-breaker is head-to-head results.

Rachel has HOY locked already. She wins this weekend, toss the key.

:zz:

The point is why compare Cigar to RA in the 1st place when synthetic tracks were not around back then. Cigar didn't race well on turf, everyone knows the story, I am not suggesting RA race on turf, but as mentioned by another poster RA has won on poly, abeit it was not a significant win...but it was a win, then why the reluctance to race in the BC?

When she wins The Woodward HOY is over, Until she wins the Woodward anything could happen with HOY. Even Mine That Bird has an outside shot although he would have to win 2 more races in a huge way. Rachel whipped Summer Bird once she will whip him everytime they run a square race. She is much faster the Summer Bird. As for the rest of the male slugs colts and or horses they stink as well. Maybe Quality Road could beat Rachel in a 1 turn mile but I question that outcome as well. I have a feeling Quality Road is about to have a phathom career ending injury any minute.. He has done enough..

Jackson loved Curlin thinks we was g-ds gift to racing. He watched his all time great lose on Pro Ride so he figures that he can't bear to watch Rachel lose on it. Plus he likes making grand statements and what better a time and place to get his message across..Of course , it is self serving and off color but it is his right to express himself. He ponied up the 6 to 10mil(u hear so many people who KNOW the price) Basically in comes down to this "in his club he can splash the pot whenever the FCUK he wants" (per TEDDY KGB in Rounders).

I'm sure they arent scared of running her in the BC.

The answer is really simple. The owner of said horse hates artificial surfaces. He calls them plastic in interviews. He did not want to run his superstar horse on plastic last year, gave in, and probably was not happy with the results. He doesnt want to run her on plastic.

I'd blame Rachel not being in the BC on the Breeders Cup idiots more than Jackson. If the race was at another track like Churchill, Gulfstream, Belmont, Oaklawn, the Fairgrounds, etc... I would be surprised if she DIDNT show up. She's not ducking out of the Breeders Cup.. its extremely obvious he is not afraid of runner her in ANY spot. her owner is taking a stand against plastic.. and I dont blame him.

I keep reading how no one could beat Rachel in a "square race"? What is that? If the older males challenge her and the early fractions in the Woodward are fast (say, 46.1, 1:10), would that be an "unfair" race?

By the way, those were the fractions from the Whitney, which were considerably faster than those set in the Preakness, and no one suggested that the 8YO Commentator had been unfairly treated.

If no one has suggested that yet then let me be the first. Lezcano destroyed the only two decent race horses in that races for no explicable reason.