it's all well and good to close the gap on the uninsured. but who is going to pay for this plan if it passes? obama says he won't raise taxes and will cover everyone-i guess he'll do some hollywood type accounting, and then we'll get hit with a massive bill a few years down the road. but he'll be out of office by then, it won't be his problem. he can go on the lecture circuit and make $$ talking about how he passed universal health care. the fact that it's only adding to a tremendously huge defecit won't matter-to him.

and i read this little gem in an article linked on the side of the one you posted:


Britain is forecast to run up the worst budget deficit in the developed world next year.


and their system works according to those who use it as a reference point....yeah, ok. between talk of dirty, understaffed hospitals, and an incredible deficit-is this really what we want?

Attachment 1347


Cannon & Danzig you are "un-American"






:rolleyes:

Just drink the cool aid.

From the other side, I think many who have health insurance treat it like they would a smorgasbord restaurant as in they paid to get in so will eat 2 dinners, salad, pie, desert, juice, pop and desert again and insured patients including Medicaid patients get test after test seeing specialist after specialist when if they had to pay at least a part of each procedure they may opt to wait or even not have. In Obama speak a deductable as you go if you will.

my lord what was done to her?

It sure doesn't seem to me they are just doing something or the sake of it. They have come up with a decent plan. Three of them, in fact, which vary. A decent plans with many components. They've been "looking at it" for the past 20 years.

The details are out there, especially this week when the President held three live Town Halls and went over all the details of the various plans, repeatedly.

I just hope, when it comes out of the final compromise committee, the Senate doesn't screw it up so badly it's useless. They will compromise, and it will be in effect in 2013.

[quote=Cannon Shell]Or:

The current program is flawed, and Obama's plan (actually "he" doesn't have a plan, the House and the Senate are making up the plans, which is the source of much of the problem) - will make everything much better.

The House plans and Senate plan will be merged in Committee. That's "bipartisanship".

You'll notice that Obama wanted bipartisanship in working out the plans from the start, and the GOP pretty much came up with "don't do anything!" and "death panels". Thanks, guys, great input!

There has been inaction on health care for decades - now is the time to finally get something done.

The program not only will not be a drain on our economy, it will raise healthcare standards and care in our country overall. Small business will benefit with a reduction of monies they must spend on healthcare, or enable them to provide healthcare if they do not now.

The middle class will have ever greater options, and greater coverage, at lower cost.

I've spent months trying to figure out how someone could be a communist, a Nazi, a liberal, and a socialist at the same time.

So what? That doesn't make either England or Great Britian Socialist.

There's a Socialist Party in the US, too.

Then they sent the wrong speaker or gave him the wrong facts but when he said his budget would reduce Federal spending by $2.2 TRILLION and the Congressional Budget Office says oh no and project a $2.7 TRILLION increase I'm done listening. Hopefully AARP joined me.

[quote=Cannon Shell]Yeah - death panels! ;)

[quote=Cannon Shell]How will it be a "massive intrusion" when the average "private citizen" will have zero contact with any healthcare reform - other than increased consumer protections - unless they want to?

When a country imposes a tax that is more than half of what was earned that worker IMO works for the Country or common good :zz: . That money taken from the worker is distributed among others to make them more equal including healthcare. It's not a perfect socialist society thankfully but certainly has socialists’ tendencies. :)

Don't be afraid just say 'Hello My Name is Riot' and let it go.....

No, sorry. I personally wouldn't boycott Whole Foods, because Mackey the far right-right-right Libertarian isn't the owner. It's a publically-owned company, I thought.

But if other consumers want to boycott due to the CEO's political opinions, that's certainly their choice.

People act on their conscience. Glenn Beck calls Obama a racist on TV, and Progessive Insurance, Geico, Proctor and Gamble, Lawyers.com pulled their advertisements from association with his show. Followed shortly by Healthy Choice, Radio Shack, Roche and Sanofi-Aventis.

Nonsense. There have always been crazy fringes on the far right and the far left, and the far right whackos are having their moment in the sun now. These people are not imaginary, they are most obviously right there - like the Libertarian that carried the gun strapped to his leg to outside the Obama town hall meetin in NH.

They are not the majority, obviously, but they are not imaginary. You need to go watch some videos of the town hall meetings even GOP congressional members and blue dogs have been suffering through, as far as disruptions.

What does that have to do with what is being proposed in either the House or Senate health care reform bills? Nothing.

2/3 from Medicare-Medicad inefficiency cutting, 1/3 from lowering
tax deductions on those that make over $250K per year from 36% to 28% (making that bracket deduction limits like the vast majority of other Americans)

Right now, if you have insurance through any of the major carriers, THEY (the insurance companies) declares what tests they will cover for what medical conditions.

If you have health insurance now, you sure don't have a "smorgasbord" of choices that you and your doctor make for testing, treatment - you take what you are given by the insurance company, if you want your insurance company to pay for it.

Here's why we need insurance reform with consumer protections: your insurance company can drop you any time they want, for anything they want. Read your contracts. Welcome to reality.

It happened to me last year, after my insurance company pre-approved paying for hospitalization and an orthopedic procedure.

Five months later (it took them that long to delay paying the hospital and doctor, and to find something remote 25 years back in my medical history - which I had declared upfront when I got the policy -to cancel my policy upon) they retroactively cancelled my policy.

Well, I had a choice: they would not pay for the operation as they said they would, and as they signed off they would to the hospital and doctor (and I had to sign a waiver releasing them from their promise to pay) - and the second choice, the blackmail for not agreeing they wouldn't have to pay was complete retroactive cancellation of my policy from the date of inception years ago, and I would also have to pay them back for everything they had every paid out on me.

The above is legal and happens all the time. I currently have a lawyer discussing it with them. The Kentucky Insurance Commission cannot do anything to protect the consumer, as there is no law for this.

That is another thing "health care reform" will do - provide consumer protections from the above.

I'm furious at Bush for never doing anything about this (after Clinton couldn't get it done) - Bush said he would do something during his first campaign.

Now is the time. It needs to be done.

You might re-read what AARP has said subsequently about healthcare reform plans, after that first Town Hall, and first "we didn't say that". They say they completely support healthcare reform now.

The CBO also agrees that healthcare reform (the plans in the works now) will cost a trillion over 10 years, which is what Obama has been saying.

You mean exactly like the current US socialist programs: Medicare, Medicad, and Veterans benefits?

it's not a decent plan. it's an extravagant, expensive plan that will run us further in the wrong direction than we already are. a country teetering on bankruptcy can't afford to add more programs without cutting something, or several somethings.
i've read the details, why do you think i'm so concerned? social security expenditures are about to go thru the roof. we're not out of either war that we were assured we'd be out of-that drain on the treasury continues.

[quote=Riot]

lol
perhaps it's you that should read the details-or are you just not bothering to read what the CBO has put out?

as for inaction, presidents beginning with teddy roosevelt have attempted to do something. problem is, the issues are more wide-ranging then just providing health care-it's that our fed is trying to be everything to everyone, and we don't have the money.

There is not currently "one plan", 'Zig, there are three (or four, can't remember if two or three in the House) What details are you so concerned about?

we're headed for the same disaster, that's what it had to do with it.

i think you're completely ignoring the price tag attached to the plan. you're also ignoring what i put up from fact check dot org.

[quote=Danzig]I am well aware of the details, I've watched all three Town Hall meetings this past week, I've read all that Fox and WSJ etc. have said on the other side, and I'm going by what the CBO has said last week.

Regarding other issues, yes, they are more wide-ranging than health care. But health care is on the table now, and everyone associated with it - including Obama - have said they will not sign off on it if it adds to the deficit (if it cannot be self-funding)

medicare, medicaid and the veterans programs are all filled with fraud, waste and abuse. but the govt is going to expand into health care for others- with a price tag in the trillions. according to fact check, much of what obama said in his last press conference was incorrect, including whether people with current insurance they want to keep will be affected.

i'm concerned about the deficit, the economy, and the fact that the govt who keeps making things worse is somehow believed by some to in fact suddenly have the ability to make it all better. i'm concerned that increased taxes and inflation is on the horizon. i'm concerned that the president is not in touch with reality-that he is continuing the trend of spend, spend, spend while ignoring the deficit, it's effect for years to come, and our ability as a country to handle our finances.

in essence, everything i posted, and linked that you evidently ignored.

[quote=Riot]
then they are wasting their time, and ours, as it will add to the deficit.

The health care reforms include strong provisions - changes in law - for decreasing fraud and waste in Medicare, Medicad and the Veterans programs. Isn't that a good thing?

The price tag isn't in the trillions. It is one trillion over 10 years.

?? The last press conference was some time ago (a month?) what about what is being talked about this week?

There is zero provision in any of the healthcare bills for anybody with current insurance to be forced off it. They may be affected by increased consumer protection, and lower insurance costs.

Me, too. But I certainly have seen in the past where some administrations do indeed make things "much better", and some do not.

Well, you've already received a tax cut from Obama, and there is no talk of increasing taxes on anyone making less than $250K a year.

We'll have to see about the inflation.

I think this President is much more grounded in reality than the last administration. You do realize that Bush did the first big spend last fall, with the first rescue TARP funds?

Seriously - you keep saying stop spending, that no money should have been spent - but what do you think would have happened? I think we'd be in an overt depression right now. You?

Yes, the country is in a deep mess (which didn't start January 20) and this is the man the majority of people chose to get us out of it. We've got 4 years to work with him, until Jeb Bush comes to save us all :)

■Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade


what else is there to talk about?



Obama claimed his budget "reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion" compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don’t support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut.

That the above is talking about the current, fat, in-progress House bills and the Senate bill, which are still filled with every extra each Committee wants.

There has to be something for them to throw out when they come together to hammer out the final reforms bill together.

lol

yeah, ok-cause we know just how good congress is at saving the taxpayers money, and never, EVER keeping something in a bill that we really don't need. :rolleyes:

i don't know what else to say except that we've seen how congress behaves-one need only look at our current spending practices, and the current deficit. that didn't just happen overnight, but is the result of years and years of congress spending more than they have. and it will continue if any version of the current bills pass. it's yet another costly program-with social security and medicare costs getting ready to balloon dramatically because the baby boomers are set to retire, and there are less workers to pay for their retirement.

keep those rose-colored glasses handy, you're going to need them.

do they have this for horses?

[quote=Riot]Do you work in the white house now?

[quote=Riot]Only the severely misguided believe that this isnt stage one of a complete takeover of the entire healthcare system. As usual you bring up some wild bs instead of understanding the issue. And it was ironic that after Palin brought up the "death panels", that part of the legislation was quietly eliminated. I guess she was onto something?

[quote=Riot]Are you kidding?

[quote=Cannon Shell]No, I'm not kidding. 'Esplain it to us.

[quote=Cannon Shell]LOL! Good lord - are you kidding me? Get out of your cave.

As far as the faked "death panel" provision (end of life, living will counseling, etc) - it was supported by many a Republican and voted into Medicare in an exact duplicate version just a couple years ago, btw, lead by the GOP, in fact - that was removed by the Senate committee working on that version of the bill before they went on recess.

So - first, the ignorant Palin mischaracterizes the above provision (which she herself has supported in the past, by the way, when presented by the GOP) as a "death panel" - when it's not even still in the Senate version of the bill - then secondly, she takes credit for "eliminating" it :D when it was no longer there, and hasn't been for some weeks now!

You can't make this stuff up ... :tro:

[quote=Cannon Shell]No, I don't limit myself to thinking only what Fox News tells me to think.

So, you don't like that all the healthcare reform bill versions address that concern? (preventing that disaster)

Horses have very expensive and very exclusionary healthcare, with little to no "workman's comp" types of provisions.