I agree a win in such a race is a nice way to head to the shed.

summer bird has shown ability to run over a sloppy surface, so you'd have to take the haskell defeat for what it was-a loss to a better horse. there's really no need for them to face off again.

as for rachel, i'd love to see them try turf after the woodward. if she showed ability over that, they could still take her to the bc over the lawn. to hell with polycrap.

yeah, that won't happen.

depends on demand. he may have not done enough to warrant much attention. in times like these, people tilt heavily towards established sires, rather than new and unknown.

Plenty of demand for a multiple Graded winner. The Fountain of Youth, Florida Derby, Amsterdam, and potential Cigar Mile would be plenty, not to mention a 3rd in the Travers to get a nice book. He won early he won early fast and he is from a very nice family from an already commericially accepted stallion.. In other words with a Cigar win he would have done enough.. lol

The only way it will happen the way I see it is they meet in TJGC at Belmont, they should meet again after she disposes the mediocrities in the Woodward and why shouldn't she? If she is the best horse in training right now you finish your career on a high and face the best at the classic 1 1/4 distance. Why protect her if she is supposedly 10 lengths better than the next best horse unless you have worries about the result.

Summer Bird is a much better horse at this stage than Mine That Bird was during the Preakness and all signs point to him getting better. The gap is closing between him and RA, if one can look past that made for RA Haskell. All we need is a fair race at 1 1/4 this fall at Belmont to illustrate this point.

So you want Rachel to crush in the Beldame and then 4 weeks later try the the JCGC instead of which race? I would prefer to go in the Cigar mile to exhibit her speed. BTW she is at least 8 to 10 lengths better then anything that has run this year at 9f's

I doubt Tim Ice is in accord with your thoughts. He is very aware what he is facing and he isn't going to risk what you think. It's a multi million dollar gamble.. Right now he is a made colt, get crushed by RA and he does nothing but F with the colts stallion value. Let it go!

I don't understand the appeal of the Beldame if she wins the Woodward as expected, why would she go the Zenyatta route now? The only logical race is the JCGC if we are to believe Jess Jackson, he is running her in spots for her 'legacy'. What type of legacy does the Beldame offer that the JCGC doesn't offer more appeal in spades?

Smart Strike was crushed by Cigar in his last race, that had little effect on his stud value as it stands today. Maybe you and I are different, I'm concerned about racing where it seems you are in breeding.

He's going to be remembered as chicken, if by some chance the Zenyatta camp agrees to go to the Beldame.

That's a big IF...

Can the filly crush in the Woodward first before you worry about the Beldame. Your post assumes the Woodward is a for gone conclusion. assuming you are right isn't the Beldame a logical race for RA especially with the lure of Zenyatta?

Is it too much to wish the purse of the JCGC was the one that was increased and not the Beldame? The BC Classic would be somewhat anti-climatic if these 3 plus QR and maybe MTB could meet in a race at Belmont, frankly I am sceptical of any of them meeting but hopefully I am wrong and they do find a way to make it so.

my 'won't happen' remark was in regards to turf. as for meeting summer bird again, for what? and i don't know why anyone would say anything about 'protecting' her. her campaign this year has been anything but protective or ordinary. and i doubt anyone in her camp is worried, she's dispatched everything she's faced this year with ease, including what is arguably the years best 3 yo colt.

The gap between the 2 has closed, unless one subscribes to the theory that yesterday's Travers was weak, also you can't believe Summer Bird had a realistic chance at Monmouth on that track at less than the classic distance and the way the race played out by Kent D engaging Munnings early on while Rachel watched? All things considered he did well to hold 2nd in that race.

Regardless the racing season does not end in August or September so let's watch and enjoy some rivalries. I'm sure John Henry, Secretariat and even Funny Cide didn't rest on their laurels after the end of summer, they continued to race and test themselves well into the yr.

Summer Bird ran great again and kudos for being on him so early, but remember, there's no such thing as a rivalry until each side has beaten the other.

NT

Very true, right now SB is Carol Burnett to RA's Pam Anderson...Which makes this a very interesting year for racing doesn't it? If anything I am far more interested in this year's possible matchups than last year's. And really we have RA to thank for that...she is the pinnacle that every should be shooting for, everyone should want to take on the champ, if they don't I think they are in the wrong sport.

i'm aware of how much time is left to race this year. i also know that rachel hasn't had one mis-step, not one loss or need for an excuse all year.
the haskell wasn't exactly that long ago. it's certainly fresh in my memory, as is the amount of distance between summer bird and rachel at the wire. i like summer bird, i think he's turning out to be a nice colt, but i see no reason to face off vs the filly again. the fact that she's run and remained in training all year seemingly without a hitch speaks volumes about her ability.

She didn't just beat him, she toyed with him. Destroyed him. Even if the gap has closed, it couldn't be enough to make it competitive.

Neither Repent (Louis Quatorze-Baby Grace, by Cipayo) nor Bellamy Road (Concerto-Hurry Home Hillary, by Deputed Testamony) had a pedigree that had studmasters salivating. No Storm Cat, Danzig, A.P. Indy, or Mr. Prospector, nor sons thereof close up; strictly nonfashionable stuff. Like Silver Charm or Real Quiet, they would not have been missed from the stallion ranks if they had been able to come back at 4. Repent started at $5K and Bellamy Road at $12.5K, neither of which is going to get anybody rich fast.

So you're saying Summer Bird is a talented sketch comedy performer and Rachel Alexandra is a pair of fake boobs?

Gotcha...Come to think about it, I don't know which is more attractive having a few laughs or silicon.

You are giving Summer Bird WAY too many excuses in the Haskell. She trounced him very fairly.. and she was just 2 ticks off the track record in SLOP. Summer Bird ran a winning race in the Haskell.. he ran as good in that race as he has in others. Rachel is just better.

I find it funny that anyone would say the Haskell was made for RA.

The excuse about Summer Bird not racing where he likes to be is basically moot now that he used almost the EXACT same tactics in the Travers. They've obviously trained him to have more speed and it's been on display in each of his last two starts. Did he race on the worst part of the track? Potentially, but that's not enough to make up the chasm that existed between he and Rachel at the finish.

NT

I'll try to explain this again why I believe that result was flattering to RA, when you expend energy early on in a race especially when it is not the norm in a horse's profile, It can be construed as valid reason why the winning margin may be skewed. RA ran her style sitting off of 2 horses dueling(her strength) and to her credit she capitalized on it. I will concede that at this stage RA's development is ahead of SB's, after all he was cutting back from a 1 1/2 to 1 1/8th. Hey I am not making excuses for him he and the entire field got beaten rather easily that day, but if the RA backers think she is consistently 10 lengths better than arguably the best 3 yr old colt thus far this year, I think they are very mistaken.

If they ever meet again with an added furlong, with a seasoned and rapidly improving SB on a fairer racetrack with different race dynamics where Summer Bird isn't forced to not run his style, I am extremely confident Rachel Alexandra will not be 10 lengths the better if she indeed is. We will see and I can't wait if and when it happens. Money is the name of the game and I hope my opinion is of the vast minority.

I get what you are saying and in general, I think you are correct. However, after watching Summer Bird's run in the Travers, I think it's a mistake to say he was forced to altar his style in the Haskell. It looks more like that's his new style and he's better at it than his old style was. Sort of the same thing that happened with Mine that Bird in the Derby only in reverse. The Haskell was only his sixth career race. It's hard to say conclusively that a horse with only that many starts actually has a set style of running.

When she wins the Woodward by 7 with a 117 BSF can we get a retraction?

So basically if the distance is longer, the race dynamics different, the surface different, the moon slightly higher in the Western sky and the date an odd number, she might not beat him by that much?

NT

This is insane logic, so we are running races on paper now and not on the track...:rolleyes: Why race at all if we can cite beyers as if they were biblical.

Isn't it presumptious to place so much on one meeting and one result?

:tro: :tro:

When the one meeting has many circumstantial occurrences and a narrow finish, maybe. In this case, doubtful.

NT

Who knows, maybe at 10 furlongs she is only 3 lengths better.. probably closer to 10 though. But Summer Bird ran a similar close to the pace race in the Travers and won by 3 1/2. So maybe he WAS in his comfort zone in the haskell.

If she was not in the race at Monmouth, Summer Bird would have won the race in a respectable time. Just like this past Saturday. He ran a real good race in the Haskell. She absolutely freaked (like she does every time she sets foot on a racetrack except the Preakness) and was 2 ticks off the track record while running over some soup.

Also, with regards to the 10 furlong thing.. She may have won the haskell by 15 or 20 had she had another furlong to keep moving.

I just dont think your Haskell arguement makes any sense.

If they races again at 1 1/4 I wouldnt bet on either horse. Rachel's odds would be too low, and I wouldnt want to lost my $ betting on the other bird.

you better knock on wood.

I'm starting to get nervous about the Woodward now. Last week I thought it would be no problem. Now when every single person on the planet talk like its a foregone conclusion... I start to get nervous.

It will be her biggest challenge of her career IMO... and will be a tougher race than the Travers turned out to be (which I was saying last week also).

While the older horses are nothing real special, there is still a reason that it is so unheard of for a 3yo filly to be taking on open competition on September 5th.

Isnt is a little strange to call a horse, that less than a month ago was beaten by 6 lengths in a fairly run race, better than the horse that beat him?

It's not. That's just in the United States and that's just because the purses are good enough in their own division or in races for older females that trainers are reluctant to take the risk. That has more to do with why it's not done than because it's some outrageously hard task.

Better? Did I say that? I would like to know via quotation that I said Summer Bird was a better horse.

3 to 15? Regardless I think it makes perfect sense, I project SB to be conservatively 5 times the odds as RA will be and I will certainly bet given the conditions I have mentioned were met.

I can respect this statement, the other fan type of reactions of me seeing that another horse can beat RA is a mystery all in itself. If no one had a different opinion this would be a boring sport filled with betting 1/9 shots.