its not right to root for people to choke! But then again when it comes to Mickelson you can just expect it to happen.

see we watch the tournaments and have our opinions formed based on watching tiger succeed and phil fail

i don't think anyone here has been with the 2 of them on the golf course with no spectators around , no cameras , around , just 2 guys out there hitting different shots from all over the place - until anyone of us is that lucky and can see it 1st hand it's still all very subjective and even after seeing it live it's still subjective - i have been lucky see phil at winged foot back in '92 , i have never been up close with tiger

part of sucds reasoning is probably based on the fact that he watches and see phils hit shots in events. kev you and i know tiger would never attempt some of these shots in an event as they carry to much risk for the reward. phil pulls these shots off and i am guessing that is why scuds made the statement. you can say scuds statement has a flaw to it , but, you can't factually prove it incorrect

now you are getting into different analogies

You have never wished/wanted a guy to clunk a foul shot? Isn't that the same thing? Not wishing harm on the guy, just want him to yip this last putt.

what a shame kev , another won he probably feels he let get away , that's at least 4 us open's he could have won

a shame

WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE LIKE TO WATCH PHIL SO MUCH? It's because he has the talent to do crazy stuff, and he's mentally too weak to draw off. Tiger is the better player, because that has to do with results. Phil's a freak show.

I would like to see/hear some examples. I've seen Phil take some seriously stupid risks that Tiger would not do, simply because Tiger is not that stupid. That is not grouds for saying Phil is more talented.

Like that risk Phil did at the Open when he was leading going into the final hole.. and stupidly hit a driver, which Tiger never would have done, again cause he's not that stupid.. and the ball went into the rough and Phil lost the tourney.

I feel like a moron throwing out cliche after cliche but Lefty = Andy Roddick & Tiger = Roger Federer.

I mean for real.. We've heard some dumb things on this board but Lefty being more talented than Tiger takes the cake.

Lets see, Tiger Woods: 14 Majors, 3 US Amatures, 67 wins on the tour. 33 years old

Lefty: 3 Majors, 1 US Amatures, 36 wins on the tour. 39 years old.

guess you're right..

lori both palyers have talent , an abundance of it

to say 1 is more talented than the other is a subjective opinion - it can't be factually proven wrong either way

as for the better palyer - there is no question tiger is the better player - the results bore that out and the results become the fact

Although he was tied for the lead, the other guy had a par 5 left. We all know he was still a half shot to a full shot down still. He certainly was mentally weak(as usual,) but it wasn't as bad a choke as he has had in the past. He's very talented, but very mentally weak.

Scuds, it's not because he has the talent to do crazy stuff, it's because he has the stupidity (and guts) to try the crazy shots and that is why the average golfer likes him, because they like to try crazy stuff too. There are tons of guys on tour that can hit the same kind of crazy shots that Phil can, they just choose not to and play more conservatively.

How many of Phils peers on tour marvel at the way he hits the ball? I have never heard any of them say anything. How many times to you hear those same guys marvel at the way Tiger hits the ball? Quite a bit...

It doesn't get much bigger of a choke than leaving a 3-4 footer for par short

Kev, you can't be objective, cuz you despise LEFTY.

Sergio Garcia has an insane amount of shots in his bag. Is he more talented than Tiger now too?

For real Scuds, you cant actually believe this stuff, right??


Maybe they watch him cause he's a great golfer with a great personality? (much more fan friendly than Tiger it seems). Maybe they watch him because people like to root for the underdog? Maybe people watch him because it makes them feel better when they 3 putt #17 cause the 2nd best player in the world routinely 3 putts #17? He's a likeable guy (especially if ya like chokers). He's an amazing and talented golfer. He's not Tiger Woods when it comes to talent and mental toughness... There's only a handful of players with the talent/mental toughness that Tiger has, Hogan, Snead, Nicklaus... possibly Palmer though I'd put him slightly behind the top group.

that is true he biased

my guess is if golf digest asked all the tour caddies or other players to vote just on talent it would come out

tiger 50%
phil - 45%
other 5%

Yes, it does. If you do that with a 1 or 2 shot lead, then it's even more of a choke. He got to the guy n' hung. This is just normal Phil stuff. Really, isn't this just about the level of choke he does normally?

I would guess 100% of the tour caddies would agree that you and Scuds are INSANE.

Actually, no I don't. I have had a 180 degree turn around in my opinion of him. Life has a funny way of doing that sometimes.

I think it would have been fantastic if he had won. Don't get me wrong Scuds, I think Phil is immensley talented. I have had the fortune of seeing them both play and practice in person...and in my opinion, Phil is not the most talented.

here is a chance for anti-trust and bigs to vote on a talent/better situation

we all know who the better player is between myself and gpk - that one does not even have to go to a vote , i will never play in tournaments that he has already won and forgotten about but as far as hitting the from tee to green (not getting the ball into the hole) who do you think can hit more shots can play more shots - high hooks , low fades , driver over the corner of a dogleg to cut a fairway in half , punch wedges , buried sand shots , flop shots - now isn't the decision a littler harder after you saw us both play?

This I will agree with.. Just another normal Lefty choke. Tho at least he didnt hit one off the tent.

I was at Shinneycock or however u spell it when Lefty on #17 hit it in the trap and then 3 putted.

Just another normal Lefty Major.

Woman, maybe you're on the rag cuz ya boy had nothing this week. I mean really, tell me who was more fun to watch? Tiger making almost nothing, or that freak on display? Tiger is not as fun to watch. He either is boring bad, or boring good. Last year's U.S. OPEN was the exception.

Kev hadnt played in a long while. it was like 6 in the morning and we were all hungover... & starting to drink again.

I can safely say three things:

You hit it longer than Kevin

Kevin is more talented

We all had a blast and should do it again.

i thought the pga against may had more drama than last year's us open , because they played together on sunday and then played in the playoff , rocco was not in his group on sunday

the putt to tie may after may knocked in his putt on the 72nd hole in my opinion was tiger's greatest putt ever as a pro - may just poured it in right in front of him and he then poured it right in after may

The scenario you are referring to is impossible to judge either of us from.

Tiger could not putt those greens at all this week. He sucked on the greens. Never seen him (or anyone really) miss the type of birdie putts he had all week long. If Tiger and Lefty were playing a scramble, they would have shot 20 under, cause Tiger was driving and hitting his irons VERY good. Lefty was putting VERY good (up until it was time for him to choke).

Lefty was more exciting to watch this week. But then again, if Tiger would have had an afternoon tee-off time on Thursday instead of an early one, he would have won his 15 Major even while putting like crap.

Tiger's C game is as good as anyone's A game.

I think its hilarious that even when Tiger plays boring bad he's always in the top 10, if not top 3. He's just that good.


Are you a golfer Scuds?

my point in relation to phil and tiger is, you didn't have to think about the better part between me and kev , but the talent part you had to think about it evaluate it, it wasn't an automatic decison

no offense but I didnt have to think about it. and that includes the talent part. Dont take it personally.

You ever think that Phil has all these shots in his bag because he is in s.hitty position so many times? Take me for instance, I'm great from getting out from behind and under trees (cause it seems like that's all I ever do ), but put me 150 out in the fairway and I'm dead.

that's fine , that's your opinion

i know i can hit shots that he can't hit , and there are shots that he can hit that i can't hit

if a group of people off of this board watched the 2 of us hit shots (not score), just hit all kinds of different shots and vote - i can guarantee you that the un-biased voting would not have me at 0% to 100% for gpk for talent

and if we took that same group of un-biased off this board people and said to take a look at our playing resumes - i know i would be at 0% and gpk would be at 100%

the 1st part is subjective to the eye and can be debated , the second part is cold hard and factual - it's the results/ the hardware

which ones would those be?

have you and Kevin played golf since that one morning in Toga? Cause if you are only going off that one round... I'd say you are outta your mind my friend.

kev i am not going to list shots but you know i am capable of hitting shots around doglegs and onto par 5's that even guys like corey pavin could never hit

i'm never remotly going to even ever come close to beating corey pavin -no , but , there are shots that i can hit that he can't

nevermind, you are outta your mind. and by the way that is a horrible example if you are trying to prove you are more talented than a golf PRO.

i'll tell you what , there are golf pros out there that i can beat over 4 rounds , gpk is not one of them and never will be, but ,there are club pros that i have beaten.these guys get jobs because of politics lori not because of playing ability. you better re-think it if you don't think i can beat some of these club pros , a lot of them under the gun don't break 80

You hit it farther than me, that is it.

You seriously can't base the shots that you can hit vs. the shots I can hit on 1 round of golf. Especially givens the circumstances.

My handicap was a +4 for a while for a reason Marty. You don't go over a month without shooting a round over 69 without having alot of shots in your bag.

I promise you, when I was healthy and playing alot of golf, you and I could have played $100 a hole, 5 days a week, me giving you 3 a side...and I could have quit my day job:)

actually you are most likely right.. I should have said Corey Pavin, cause thats who I meant..

My friend Maria is going for her teaching Pro thingy.. and while she is a better golfer than me right now (back in High School before I stopped playing except for 2-3 times a year I would NEVER let her beat me), I could go out and shoot a 88 and she could shoot a 91 on any given day. (Depending what my swing wants to do).

Gosh I miss golf, wish I wouldnt have stopped playing... but its way too expensive when ya cant go to Daddy's country club anymore.

again kev you and lori are getting defensive here , i never said i was better , never once ever. i said if you took an un-biased set of people and we just hit shots i wouldn't lose in a vote 100% to 0% , there would be a percentage of the people who would vote for me simply becuase i can hit a driver 300 yards over a corner dogleg , out of 100 people i might get 4-8% of the vote - my entire point of the thread is going back to phil and tiger - it's a subjecitve vote having nothing to do with tournament reuslts



if those same people were told to look at our tournament results the vote would be 100 % to 0% in your favor no question

as for you giving me 6 shots in match play over 18 holes , if you want to play let me know - that would be a worth having a match for , i would have a puncher's chance

We're only getting defensive cause you are getting crazy. Okay maybe Scuds would vote for you, because he also believes Lefty is more talented than Tiger. But come on... hitting the ball longer doesnt make anyone more talented. You've also got 5 inches and 50 pounds on our very own GPK.

at least 70 would be my guess:D :D

Maybe if you are looking through binoculars from the wrong end.