I like spelling it dammit.
For the effect, not affect.

Oh good Lord Timm.
The world is bigger than just US.

And what am I dreaming about?
Obama will do a better job of listening than Bush.
Will his listening transfer into action? I firmly believe
he will do what he thinks is best for THIS country realizing
we have to deal with OTHER countries.

You just cant put your head in the sand and hide.
WE MUST DEAL WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.
The world is no longer flat for gosh sakes.

[quote=pgardn]That would be the Roman Catholic church,I believe, that was the major force in the Crusades. Our founding fathers left England because they didn't want a STATE religion foisted on them.

[quote=timmgirvan]The morals I have in my own brain is what drives me to be honest. I may not be 100% perfect (obviously cause Im gay right :rolleyes: ) but I always try to look out for others and never cause harm to anyone.

Its not a faith, its a commen sense and a common knowledge of what is right and what is wrong.

You mean capitulate to the other countries,right? Personally I don't think we should consider any source that doesn't share our ideals and goals.

[quote=timmgirvan]Yes and that state religion was none other than Christianity.
Just like Islamic countries using the rule of Law of the Koran
as interpreted by them.

Are Roman Catholics Christian Timm?

[quote=Antitrust32]you took the slight...I didn't give it to you.
You had to have started from something....morally, whether from parents or church or school even. Common sense doesn't dictate things related to rage or passion,for instance.

Capitulate?
Capitulate?

You look at issues that might be benificial to multiple countries
and dont partake, just call it capitulation? Are we capitulating
while meeting with the heads of state about the current world
economic crisis?

What the heck are you suggesting that I suggested? When did I mention
capitulate. I wrote listen to. If we dont listen, how the hell can we understand the correct road to take?

[quote=pgardn]The Church of England was a form of Christianity, but ruled more for political
power than anything(short version)
Roman Catholics are Christians, but there are many divisions and schisms in
Christianity as there are in Islam and the rest.

[quote=timmgirvan]Yes.
Christians getting into politics.
Using their ideas to sway a political party.
Sound familiar?

[quote=timmgirvan]So...who made you my boss...LOL!
Just cause you order me to defend my faith doesn't mean I'm under an obligation to do so! Again...you really are blind....everyone paying attention to my posts (admittedly that's not everyone) the past years know what my faith is...unlike you, I don't labor under the arrogance that only my religious beliefs are correct. I'll say it again, we believe that all religions are a path to the devine, one is no better or worse than another. I have no need to convert anyone, all I ask is to be free to believe as I do...I don't need holier-than-thou types trying to show me "the way" and telling me that my faith and myself are inferior because I believe differently. You have demonstrated by your posts here, that you are narrow minded, arrogant and unwilling to accept anything or anyone who believes different than you. I guess that might be considered "name calling" but your words speak for themselves.

Take a deep breath, will ya! Of course the economic situations begs for a summit. But the whole premise of sitting down with those who wish to crush us is ridiculous. They are the ones bringing the crap to us. Look at Europe...France and England are radical Muslim strongholds...cars burning, people sliced up for an infraction, people gunned down....that's not what America stands for....THEY should figure the peaceful road to take

[quote=pgardn]you're just singing the typical liberal song about people being too dumb to govern themselves. You really expect that everyone that serves our govt comes in with a clean slate?

you believe christianity is the true faith and islam false.

but if you were born in afghanistan you would believe just the opposite.

moral behavior arises from empathy, not faith. you don't have to believe in god to have a moral code. i'd rather face an empathetic athiest in a dark alley than anyone who rely's on a moral code imposed by an invisble giant.

humanity has believed in thousands of gods throughout history and most christians have no problem laughing off all those prior beliefs.

i'd suggest taking that just one god further and we'd all be better off.

OMG....forget the Koolade, Timm needs an anti-psychotic stat!!!
Let me try and follow the rant...oops, I mean "logic", if European countries are radical Muslim strongholds because of acts of terrorism that happen in their country then we are a radical Muslim stronghold because of 9-11?????

HiGod can I use that in my siggy? Great post.

[quote=somerfrost]I'm not your boss...thing is you can't or won't say what your faith is....I'm not trying to convert you. If you don't want to defend your position..stop waving it around. You love to play the victim...Btw...it's DIVINE...unless you're looking for Andy Devine...I'm pretty sure he can't help you.

I am thinking in broader terms, not just places like Iran and Syria
which clearly are problems. But sitting down with places like North Korea
and Pakistan (hanging in the balance right now) and finding out exactly
what they are about is knowlege that is powerful stuff. And definitely NOT
turning up our noses at every European proposal and going it on our own.
That is a recipe for failure. We have to talk before acting.
And I mean talking and then sanctioning till we are blue in the face.
We have to have cooperation and the only way to get it is to talk.
We cannot sanction some country and then immediately have Russia
supply them with what our sanctions prohibited. It is foolishness.
We have to know when we are in a position of power and when
we are not. We just cant go in demanding not having any idea
where we stand. That is diplomacy. It is an art. We used to be good
at it.

Do you ever read a paper....112 cars a day average burned in France in 2007!
Intelligence reports state England is second target behind US. I didn't say a word about 9/11.

That's what I said about parents and life

[quote=timmgirvan]
I have been defending my positions although I must admit, you have been doing a better job than I can by the content of your arguments. Again, using a typo to poke fun at my beliefs...you are getting near the bottom of the pitcher. You are well aware of my faith, yet you ask me to defend it...no, you aren't entitled to that. Ask me any specific question and I'll answer if I deem appropriate. Hell, I'm not asking you to post a verbatum copy of the Bible! You want to have insight into Witchcraft....google it!

I think he is speaking to all the bombing that has taken place in London and Paris (and other European cities). Strongholds was way overstated. I think thats what he means. They have trouble with Islamic extremists bombing night clubs etc... and have for a while. But I think he forgets that London had just as many bombings by Christians (Catholic extremists from Ireland, the IRA). Although I get the cutting feeling he does not consider Catholics real Christians. In that case I would have him go back in time and visit Northern Ireland and the Protestant terrorist groups.

I suggested that to Somer, and you have every right to say what ever you want, without being told you're f'd up, retarded, out of your mind, on drugs,right? Not unlike what you've said to me on most occasions.

Selective memory!

"Second target behind US"...damn Timm do you read what you post???

why do you label bombers like IRA christians? I believe that whole circumstance is over the right to rule!

And you have other stats?

Thats what they call themselves. You dont like that?
Kinda of like some of the Muslims groups here in the US
that get so upset when their extreme brethren get them labeled.
There were Catholic priests giving money to the IRA in Boston.
And many other Catholics that detest the IRA.

It comes from centuries of hatred.
And that of course leads to trying to take political control. In these cases,
I cant separate the two. Maybe you can. You are choosing which conflicts
you wish to label rather indiscriminately.

I believe the IRA vs England / Northern Ireland has more to do with England invading Ireland and basically making the population go from 8,000,000 to 1,000,000 (immigrating to the USA and dead from potato famine) and THEN England decided to keep the top part of Ireland...

Sure Irish are Catholics and English are Protestants but I dont believe the hatred is caused by the religion.

and that's why you'll always be a small "g"

This is a long standing hatred that goes centuries back.
ONe could argue all this Protestant v. Catholic stuff goes
back to Martin Luther.

^^^

oh by the way I am extremely biased about the Ireland/England thing so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

(yay Ireland)

thank you...that's basically what I meant...the right to govern oneself.

What would make me a Homie "g"??

And this is basically why one does not partake in religious discussions
at tea parties. One reaches a point where the rift leads to a complete
inability to carry on.

God tries to convince you to look at the big picture,
and you try to convince god (God) to take a moral stand
based on your belief system that came through religion...
A stout belief that does not allow excursions off the trail
you have been walking for a long time.

Impass.
Call in Kissinger.

I'm not pushing this on you...I sure as hell don't need pity because of your rantings. Is every drug comment about you? you seem to think so. I'm not judging Somer...I'm asking him to stick up for whatever he believes in, because he has a 'bent' against Christianity