Yeah it was a hand ride to get past Barcola. :rolleyes:

Hey Coach im not trying to gang up on you here but one of the reasons I come on here is to read your comedic stylings in your posts. You are a truely funny person, dont turn into a hater like most people on this board. But I have to say I was impressed with Einstiens performance and im sure the connections got exactly what they wanted to out of this race. But its not like my opinion matters much here anyways.

Coach...please explain the difference between what Einsteins connections did running on the dirt then what Secretariats did running him on grass and Curlins discussing the real probability of him running on the weeds?

As a racing fan and previous owner, I personally don't care what surface a horse races on as long as he's competitive and could make him a more attractive asset down the road. Not every race has to be for a win BTW. You think the West Point people are UNHAPPY with their 2nd place Preakness finish? It's about the Franklins $$$$ IMO. And as many trainers state everyday, their decisions are not about making racing fans HAPPY.

yeah, no doubt sec's fee rose after that race....

North American-breds, yes, several times. North American-trained, no, mainly because it has rarely been tried, if at all. Longchamps, the track where the Arc is run, is a horseshoe-shaped RIGHT-handed track, which is the biggest hurdle for US-types, along with the soft ground that so often turns up for the Arc. US-raced horses never have to turn right-handed at speed, they have never developed the muscles or flexibility on that side (unlike Euro-horses) and would be running with a major disadvantage.

Looks like they're discussing trying it:


http://racing.bloodhorse.com/article/45743.htm

Thanks for the post, PA- who were some of the American-bred winners and did any of them race in the US or were their careers entirely overseas?

trust me, hes really not that funny.
and coach, i wanted to gang up on you here and i did not, i dont take cheap shots like you.

I don't recall anyone, other than yourself, suggesting that if Curlin were to run on turf, it would be to raise his stud fee.

Like Secretariat, Curlin pretty much has nothing to prove on dirt, and it would just be a display of versatility were he to win a big turf stakes. By the same reasoning, you might suggest that he show up for the BC at Santa Anita, too.

Bring it, son. You're acting a little cocky after that Pick 4 hit. I'll bring your stupid ass back down to earth.

cocky ?
i have done nothing cocky at all.... i lose more then i win latley, now your just searching for **** to say. i have not been cocky at all

i said your not that funny
whats cocky about that...
you really are not very funny

Stop being a chump and say what's on your mind. You say stupid s.hit on here multiple times in a day so what's stopping you now?

im not being a chump, im not going to take shots at you when everyone else already is... your the one who does that, you sneak **** in whenever you can... its like you cant help yourself

and i did say whats on my mind
YOUR NOT VERY FUNNY
TO ME, YOUR NOT FUNNY AT ALL

Well since I'm fed up with this place how about we have a poll and see who has contributed more to this site? Loser leaves for good.

Melbourne based horses float over and go the Sydney way with success all of the time.

The biggest hurdle for US types is their inferiority, not the layout at Longchamp.

The only horse that I can recall who absolutely detested going right handed is Vroom Vroom from the David Hayes stable a couple of years back. He has since died of a heart attack, but that horse was a terror going left-handed, and absolutely useless going right handed.

Vroom Vroom dies during trackwork

Monday, 28 August 2006:

David Hayes lost one of his main Cox Plate hopes when Vroom Vroom suffered a massive haemorrhage during trackwork at Lindsay Park on Monday and died.

"He wasn't working particularly fast either," Hayes said of the bold frontrunning imported six-year-old.

"He didn't drop but gradually slowed down, collapsed and died.

"He was one of my main Cox Plate hopes."

Vroom Vroom was a Group One winner of the Argentine Guineas and had won three of his first four starts in Argentina before being sent to Hayes in Hong Kong.

He failed to adapt to the right-handed direction of racing there, being placed just once in nine Hong Kong starts.

Hayes brought him to Melbourne where he excelled the left-handed way, winning four races including the Listed Auckland Racing Club Stakes (1600m) at Flemington.

The gelding ran third to Our Smoking Joe in the St George Stakes (1800m) at Caulfield and a close fourth to Roman Arch in the Australian Cup (2000m) at Flemington.

Vroom Vroom hadn't raced since finishing fourth to Cosmo Bulk in the Singapore International Cup (2000m) at Kranji on May 14.

He was due to resume in Adelaide on Saturday week.

Look I can't help it if I'm being ganged up for an opinion that doesn't mean jack s.hit in the grand scheme of things. I can handle ateam and Hoss. They love arguing semantics and I do too. We have a difference of opinion on where Einstein should be running...that's it.

i got you....

lol no
because ppl dont like me, and thats childish and dumb, i never EVER SAID YOU DONT CONTRIbute i just said YOUR NOT FUNNY

Of course I'm not funny. I've been thinking about an original retort to your horrendous grammar and have NOTHING.

whatever

This is stupid. To suggest that a US horse would not be at a distinct disadvantge running at Longchamp is insane. The thought that US horses are inferior to foreign horses is silly and simply not true.

in turf races?

i am in no way suggesting a race on turf would raise his fee, that's been my point all along--i think he's reaches his ceiling stud-fee wise. i think jess jackson has a once in a life time horse, and it's in the twilight of HIS life. i don't imagine he'd look back fondly to curlins retirement, but races leave a wealth of memories. i'm glad he's kept him out there, just wish there were more like him.

i agree he has nothing more to show on dirt. as for santa anita, i'll be surprised if he shows, since he's never run on awt to my knowledge.

Our top class grass horses are inferior to top class European horses on the turf. Not even a contest.

That's like saying our sprinters in the Olympics aren't superior to the Polish 100 meter runners.

Different ballgame

HOW ARE YOU TONIGHT ?

In general, obviously, you're right. But there's nothing to say that America can't produce a grass horse who could compete with the euros. If somehow Curlin ended up being just as good on grass as he is on dirt he could probably compete. Personally, I think Barbaro could've won some big European turf races.

i just don't know that a horse who is used to running on hard, fast tracks can then run over a hard turf track and then be set to run on the mush overseas. seriously, the cut in the ground over there is nothing to sneeze at. and it matters tremendously. even if curlin ran at arlington or monmouth, in no way would that course compare to what he'd be on in france.

but good luck to him and his connections. they will surely need it. just remember horses like george washington, who look like champs on the turf over there, but look like fish out of water here in the classic on dirt.

If Barbaro could've, then Big Brown surely can. Maybe they should point him for the Arc.

I mean, he won his maiden on grass by a pole beating a bunch of shitboxes.

Barbaro's turf races were against shitty competition, and people act like he could have won the Epsom Derby off of the Delaware Futurity.

I find it hard to believe that Curlin will be as good on turf as he is on dirt, and I'm as big of a Smart Strike on the turf fan as anyone. He's been trained his entire life to run on one surface, and how many American horses do we see running 115+ Beyers on the grass? It'll take at least that to compete with the Europeans on grass. He could be a very good turf horse and still be shy of what it would take to be competitive in a race like the Arc.

there have been many horses over the years that were bred here, and lit the place on fire running on turf overseas. we can produce them, we just don't know what to do with them after, other than sell them to foreign interests who know what they're looking for!

What does the 115 Beyer have to do with it? Beyers are lower on turf (and less relevant) and they don't make beyers for euro races so I have no idea what those horses are running. I also doubt Curlin will be as good on dirt, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility of it happening because it would add some more excitement to a very dull year.

Barbaro was a VERY good turf horse. I think they should put Big Brown back on the turf - easier to keep him sound that way and he's already proven himself on the dirt enough stud-wise.

I was just defending the position someone took that Curlin, as far as his position amongst racehorses all-time is concerned, would achieve a higher reputation if he were to run on grass and be successful at the top level.

From your reply to that post, you seemed to assume that the point of running on grass was to increase his stud value, but that wasn't what was being said by the other poster. I brought up Secretariat as an example of a dirt horse switching to the turf in a sporting move.

One could also mention Buckpasser, who I think was planning for a tilt at the Arc in France at 4 and was run in the Tidal or Bowling Green at Belmont to get a feel for turf. Because of some shoeing complications, he didn't handle it particularly well, and finished 3rd, ending his international travel plans. Unfortunately, it also ended a 15-race win streak, which would have tied him with Citation well before Cigar did with that cheesy manufactured race at Arlington.

Hopefully, Jess Jackson ups the ante of his sportsmanship by moving this horse to grass as opposed to just trying to break the pointless all-time money record or sending Curlin to Japan for the Japan Cup Dirt to face another group of no-hopers as he did in Dubai...

big brown is a decent horse in a horrible crop... last year hes not even top 5.

this year he almost wins the triple crown.

Japan Cup Dirt is no joke. Curlin might be up against it there as well.

almost no argument here . . . but I'd probably put him 3 or 4. . .

Since the majority of our important racing has been on dirt and the euros almost never beat us there couldnt you say that they are inferior to us? As a matter of fact we beat them a hell of a lot more on the turf than they beat us on the dirt. I have seen lots of superior euros come here and lose. I have also seen lots of mediocre euros come here and improve, often bleeders due to lasix use. Are they superior also? We ran 4 BC races on the turf last year in soggy conditions that should have favored the euros yet they won zero. Of the last 13 BC turf races they have won 4, hardly dominant. I remember a horse named Var who was just a horse over here, was sent to France and became the top rated sprinter in Europe. Turf horses in this country are still not really desired and are considered 2nd class citizens at least until they show they can be stakes horses. to be fair there are a whole lot more good American turf horses than there are european dirt horses. If dirt racing was eliminated in the US and the breeders and trainers concentrated strictly on turf racing, the euros would soon be second class. And that is actually a plausible situation.

3 ? omg hockey i like you and all but 3, wow even 4 ?

rags to riches....curlin... street sense.... hard spun

i could argue tiago... lears princess and lady joanee and grasshopper.... as 3 yr olds.