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And while I agree that the Smarty Jones who showed up in the Preakness would have probably beaten Bernardini in any career race - I think he's far from the most overrated horse in quite some time. No one really ever exposed Bernardini - or beat him in a vert authentic fashion - atleast in my judgement, he had enough of a trip in the BC Classic to make that an inconclusive win for Invasor. Bernardini also has more than his fair share of detractors - though they all seemed to not reveal themselves until he finally lost...and did so in what might have been his career best effort. I think Bernardini was on a road heading to being an all-time overrated horse - however, his very good loss in the Classic changed all that. He really got downgraded by a lot of people for a very good performance that was certainly no worse than any of his others. |
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Because I don't want to type up a million words saying you can't really learn anything by rating them....so rating them really doesn't matter - I will give in and do so.
Curlin's career is still unfinished - and when you look at what is out there in the older male division now - he's got a very easy road to #1 on everyones list of these if he stays sound. I will rate him though as if he's been retired today...and not account for what he might do later on. #1 Smarty Jones (really - almost nothing seperates these five horses in a rating system. Especially the top 3. His Preakness win was awesome. His Rebel win was strong. His Belmont Stakes effort was massively better than looked. I wasn't a big fan of his - but he was a very good 2yo, excellent 3yo, he had his huge race, and where was his bad race?) #2 Curlin (He was always the better horse than Street Sense and Hard Spun, but as an immature type in a race run as the Derby was - he wasn't going to show it. Won the Preakness as a lightly raced horse despite getting outtripped. Finished off 3yo season VERY strong. Doesn't corner well, isn't very effective picking through the pack, thus prone to needing wide trips) #3 Bernardini (he lossed his debut sprinting - A. P. Indy's don't do six furlongs well. After that, it was a steady diet of one impressive race followed by another slightly more impressive race - and that trend concluded with his better than looked 2nd in the Classic. A good case could be made for #1. However, all of his wins came with soft trips in soft fields.) #4 Afleet Alex (He was the star of a weak triple crown series - even though his best game naturally was probably elongated sprints. Great training job. Very underrated early season 2yo. His win in the Sanford was outstanding.) #5 Barbaro (he easily was cut out to be the kind of horse that could top this list. I'm rating based on what he did though - and not on a projection as to what he could have done) |
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IMO Barbaro was the only one in that group who had a chance to be considered great. We obviously didn't get to see his warts but he was so good on both surfaces that he would have had a huge career. I am probably giving too much credit to Curlin because he improved so dramatically while the rest of his classmates seemed to stay in place. Right now he probably looks better to me than he really is. Smarty was a very nice horse and I could see him ahead of Curlin. He always fired which I think is a mark of a great horse. Bernardini's best race that I saw was the loss to Invasor. His Preakness was visually impressive with that big move in the turn but does he even win that if Barbaro duels him down the stretch? Perhaps thats what I can't get over and I don't give him enough credit. Alex was a nice horse but a notch below the others. |
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My ranking of the five Sightseek asked about would be: 1. Smarty Jones (I thought his best race was the Belmont) 2. Bernardini (showed what people believed was brilliance all year; confirmed it in the BC Classic) 3. Curlin (much the same as Bernardini but I think he needs to be asked more to do things that the others did more naturally, if that makes any sense) 4. Afleet Alex (versatile enough to run 1:09 and change and also win at 12f just three months later) 5. Barbaro (dominated the Derby but his other dirt races weren't anywhere near what the rest of these did on multiple occassions) |
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You, however, just changed the argument right in the middle. The post of yours I was responding too had nothing at all to do with KG. It said you thought Easy Goer and Sunday Silence were not as good as Smarty Jones and Java Gold. To me, that is just nonsense. If you can find some way to explain that one to me in a way that makes sense....I'll be shocked. |
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I agree. One race doesn't make a career, and while maybe he would have proven best of the lot, based on accomplishment I should have rated him 5th as well. |
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1. Curlin...he simply did more. Ran all 3 TC races and won the Classic. HIs Preakness was great and his last two races were great.
2. Bernardini...skipped the Belmont to focus on the Travers...whereas Curlin was using the Haskell as more a return race/prep for the fall races. 3. Smarty Jones 4. Afleet Alex 5. Barbaro. The bottom 3 simply stopped running and the top 2 finished out there 3 year old years very strong. I don't know how you rate horses that simply stop running. Speculating whether they win the BC Classic or what not is all that...speculation. If Curlin/Bernardini also stopped running after the TC I would rank them... 1. Smarty Jones 2. Afleet Alex 3. Barbaro 4. Bernardini 5. Curlin. I dont' know what the question was or if there were stipulations on how to rank them... |
Would anyone consider these fillies Great:
Azeri Personal Ensign Princess Rooney Rags to Riches Spain Davona Dale |
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Personal Ensign YES X 10 Princess Rooney YES Rags to Riches CLOSE Spain NO Davona Dale BEFORE MY TIME |
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How is Rags to Riches close? Davone Dale was a wonderful horse. |
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She's a terrific horse but I guess I just have a completely different feeling about what constitutes " great " than most everyone else.
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Azeri is right on the border for me. I would have liked to see her beat males though. I think she could have done it in 2002 but by the time they finally got her to Lukas, it was too late. I'd say she was a great filly but just a little short of being a great horse.
Personal Ensign was beyond great. To be able to come back off of the injury she had to return to the grade one level was great alone. To be a grade one winner at from 2-4 was great. To never lose a race, to beat a grade one male like Gulch (yes, I know that Gulch was the sprint champion that year but he was a capable distance runner too as he won the Wood as a 3yo), and to beat the Kentucky Derby winner twice while running her down, she was great. Rags has the potential to move to that level. For me though, I like to see them either run fast times or beat really good horses. She beat a really good horse in Curlin but maybe that was because she was fresh and he was just over the top at the end of the TC series. I think that the competition she was facing in those 3yo filly races aid her somewhat in the area of perception. Spain is not even close to being above average. Davona Dale and Princess Rooney were before my time. |
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Have you? |
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Yes Yes No No I don't know |
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Oh yeah, Ouija Board and Makybe Diva. Yes and no. Make that hell yes and hell no.
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And she had the ability to beat any name up there I'm sure. |
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Simply watching the races - it would be impossible to not make that kind of judgement. His '67 Travers win looking like Whirlaway in the '41 Preakness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWGOz...eature=related All of his meetings with Dr. fager: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8frxLao1bM And as for Erie - it has produced one of the greatest sports heros going for undersized men like yourself.  Too bad he's one week away from he, and the Indy secondary, getting owned by Moss. |
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I'm shocked she hasn't got around to errecting statues of herself on her front lawn - sort of along the lines of third world dictators. |
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You're just mad because your Mom's a lot prettier than you. |
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He was far more than just a rabbited set up horse. And when he wasn;t rabbitted vs Fager, it was no disgrace that he got beat. Fager was only one of the two best horses to race between Citation and Secretariat and arguably was better than both of them. Maybe a political analyst gig is in your future? |
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