I think he was way too aggressive with DM ...running him back 2 weeks after a miseable defeat vs Dixiemeister and those other worldbeaters was really insane/stupid.....its not like he had an easy race...was used hard and ran dead last....then to come back at GG 14 days later...come on....Ellis looks desperate....

I don't know how you can say BB is a one-race wonder. He is a mulitiple graded stakes winner. He won the Grade I Santa Anita Derby. He won the Grade III All American Handicap. He won the Grade II Oaklawn Handicap. He is obviously not a one-race wonder. A one race wonder is a horse that has only won one big race.

With regard to Ellis, his numbers speak for themselves. Bad trainers don't have years when they win at 29% clips. Bad trainers don't win graded stakes races at a 40% clip.

I noticed you are starting to backtrack a bit. At first you said that Ellis is terrible. Now you are saying that he is average.

What do you expect from him when he comes on TVG? I never said that he could make his living handicapping. I think he comes off fine on TVG. He comes off just as well as the other trainers that they have on.

The quote was from 2006......just face the facts..

If you know him well, a word of advice for him....tell him to stay off of TVG...he really comes across as an idiot....that or he should do his homework before going on TV......

Tom Amoss does a great job when they have him on...maybe Ellis should watch some tapes of Amoss and see how its done...

You have to realize that they are different personalities. I know NEITHER of them but Amoss seems brash and from all accounts, is a serious gambler. Amoss doesn't care what he says either. Ellis seems to be the exact opposite.

Those guys are out of their element on TVG. They come from a world where you have to tread lightly with your opinions because potential owners here that and boom, one wrong statement and you lose a client.

Terrible job with DM/Average trainer.......

What do I expect from a trainer who comes on TVG to talk about horses? Not a whole lot....just not to be a blithering idiot at times....I loved it when he was on during the Del MAr Derby...I loved Get Funky.....Ellis...the brainiac that he is says the following about the horse:

"Well...I think the one thing about this horse is after the races we all like to get funky down here by the beach.....you need to consider that"

What in gods name is this idiot saying? Then during the post parade he said the same damn thing...

The guy is embarassing on TV.....He picked another horse to win....I was that much more comfortable betting Get Funky......he won at 6-1 rather easily...

I hear ya...but again...if you decide to come on Tv ...which I agree is out of their element...try not to sound like a drooling idiot...

Amoss comes on there and gets his facts straight.....and does tell it like it is...

They totally spoil that horse. In the morning, they bring him on the track and let him stand and stare for 15 minutes if he wants to. That's what McAnally used to do with John Henry. The difference was that John Henry would go out in the afternoon and win.

Anyway, they treat the horse like royalty. And they give him plenty of time between races but that hasn't been working. They've gone over with him a fine-tooth comb and can't find anything wrong. So it appears that the horse is simply not trying. His last race did not appear to take much out of him so they figured they would wheel him right back in an easy spot. It obviously didn't work, but as bad as he ran I don't think even four weeks would have made a difference.

Sometimes it is obvious what is wrong with a horse physically but other times it is not. Since horses can't speak, sometimes trainers have to to try to be psychologists and figure out what is going on in their head. What they had been doing with DM did not appear to be working so they figured they would try something different. I can't fault them for that. I don't like bringing horses back in two or even three weeks. But in this case, I can understand why they did it. And as I said before, as bad as he ran today I don't think it made much difference.

I still think there may be something wrong with the horse that they have not been able to diagnose.

His last race (vs Dixiemeister) didnt take a lot out of him?

Go back and watch the replay..was used hard the WHOLE race....even at the end he was being pushed....that race took a ton out of him....todays result pretty much solidifies that fact....

The horse should now be retired.....end of story

I don't think his comment about "getting funky" at the beach is a big deal. That will hardly be the first time or last time that one of these guys will make a bad joke.

You are correct that there are time when some of these guys including Ellis will go on the air without doing their homework. Sometimes they don't have time. Ron sometimes goes on as a last minute replacement. Not only that, these trainers wake up at 5:00am, go to work and then have to sometimes go straight to the set at TVG. Sometimes they don't have time to prepare and they just handicap the races as they go along.

With regard to Tom Amoss, I think he can be hit or miss. I've seen him make some very insightful comments on "The Works". Other times, I've seen him say some really ridiculous things. The funniest thing is when he keeps saying that the horses' ears are forward because they are waiting for a command. He's right that it is a good sign when their are forward. Their ears come forward when they are enjoying themselves out there and are going really easy without much effort. A horse's ears will not be forward when they are fully exerting themselves. Anyway, when their ears are forward, they are not necessarily waiting for a command. It just means that they are going easy without much effort and are enjoying themselves. It may or may not mean that they are waiting for a command. But ever time Amoss is on, all he ever talks about is how the horse is waiting for a command.

I think you are probably right that the race took much more out of him than they thought.

Ellis is normally very good at being able to tell how much a race took out of a horse. But he is not perfect. He makes mistakes sometimes. That race may have taken much more out of DM than he thought.

But overall Ellis is very good at being able to tell how a horse is doing and spacing their races properly. That is why his win percentage is so high.

The Siegels could make one last desperate move with this horse and send him to Dutrow...

It would be interesting....

Find me the quote from 2006. You won't be able to find it because it does not exist. In the quote you posted, Ellis did not mention the Strub, the Strub Series or any races in the series.

As I said, I talk to the guy several times a week. I talk to him about DM all the time. He never mentioned the Strub. He's much smarter than that.

With regard to TVG, as other posters have mentioned, most of these trainers are very careful with what they say on TVG. If I'm hanging out with Ellis at the races, the commentary that he will give me is far different from what he would say on television. On television, these guys assume that there are a lot of novices watching and they will intentionally "dumb-down" their commenets and commentary. Trust me that Ellis is a very bright guy even if you can't tell on TVG.

You're beating a dead horse, Rupert... they've made up their minds and they don't give a shiat what anyone else has to say. Let them be and let their ignorance speak for itself. It never fails to amaze me the hypocrisy that is spewn on the internet. *Sigh*

It's not ignorance.....it's called an opinion...this guy has one...and I have one....and I do listen to what he is saying...I just dont agree....

Agreed
DM could look great in the morning and in the barn but just might not have the heart to race anymore. There are plenty of horses with great potential who fail to live up to that potential in barns everywhere. Ask any of the top trainers around and they'll all have stories of horses they thought would be great who failed to live up to their expectations. I loved this horse and looked forward to his comeback but I think Ellis is becoming a scapegoat. It might be in the horses head.

I think Declan's Moon has an unresolved problem that prevents him from competing effectively. My amateur opinion says it is psychological and a human needs to get into his head. Didn't Tom Smith do that with a horse named Seabiscuit!

Yesterday's performance was so bad that it hit the Yahoo News horse racing section. DM spit the bit at the 5/16 pole and quit, according to Valdivia.

He's got few options: running for a tag, getting picked up by the likes of Dutrow or Scott Lake, or a fluffer for the likes of Giacomo when he retires.

declans moon was a good two year old. doesn't mean he won't get caught and passed by late bloomers.
also, he suffered an injury, and then some setbacks. it doesn't always work out when you try to bring a horse back after suffering an injury, everyone knows that. if the horse won't extend himself anymore, i don't care who the trainer is--you can't make the horse do something he isn't willing to do.

they're going to scan him, see if there is something they're missing.

and maybe some are overlapping oneill and stevie wonderboys plans for a possible strub run w/ declans from the year before.

I'm not going to touch the debate about Ellis's training merits with a 10 foot pole.

However, a trainer change *may* help the horse, and it has nothing to do with how good or bad a trainer his current conditioner is. We just saw Miesque's Approval have a championship-level campaign this past year when he was moved from Mott's barn to Wolfson's barn. Does that mean Mott is a terrible trainer? Heck no. All it means is that different horses respond well to different environments.

And it could be that DM just doesn't want to do it anymore. If that's the case, then Charlie Whittingham himself could come down from heaven and not be able to make the horse run.