LOL Curt, its cool. Really funny thread to read. Personally I'll never understand the enjoyment of seeing a horse lose, especially when his winning could have been very good for horse racing. Then again the Sheikhs retired him anyway, so....

this I don't understand.

why would it have been very good for horse racing?

why is racing worse off that Invasor won?

You really think saying that my favorite horse ever(ghostzapper) would have urinated on him is the equivalent to wanting to poison a horse?
This is worse than last year when you said St Liam would lose and then just disappeared off the old board, without owning up to the criticism.
Grow up, I respect you but not this bull****. Your horse lost, take it like a man.

Thats a great question, for which they will have no answer.

mike in all fairness to you..you do tend to talk bad about everybody..dutrow /steve /ect ect..wishing cancer on his kids.on albertanis .at the top of your lungs.....saying frankle would sell his mother ect...you are put up with ,,thats it..no one really likes your ass..that includes the one guy you tout about knowing.......your an embaressment to this site and yourself...im sorry steve couldent say it...and he wont so i did...

Its all pretty much a moot point since he was retired, but all casual sports fans have been hearing about in the last week or two is "Bernardini, Bernardini, Bernardini". Hell, some of my boys at college were asking me about him and they dont know the difference between a furlong and a frontrunner. Never have watched horse racing but wanted to see this horse. They watched just to see this horse win. I mean, I personally dont care, but when you're advertising a race to be Bernardini v. Lava Man and one finishes 2nd and the other well up the track, that cant be good. Would Bernardini winning have brought more fans to the game? Maybe. Would his retirement today have made the same fans so 'oh, well, nevermind then'? Probably. Theres something to be said for an upset, but there's also something to be said for a anima/person/whatever considered to be atop their trade/sport/whatever to shine on the biggest day...

I must admit Oracle, screaming repeatedly, against a specimen like Bernardini, shows a disturbing lack of respect, and genuine misunderstanding of what makes a horse great.

I expect the people in your "suite", and others within earshot were appalled with your lack of class, a trait Bernardini has copiously exhibited throughout his career. BBB

By the way Ateam, I think what happened with this horse is that his backers were just so over the top obnoxious that people were hating his fans, not the horse.
Lets face it, he was one of the most talented horses in years. Besides, how do you hate a horse? I mean I can see hating on the owner or trainer, but not a horse.
You go back and read some of the ****, and the way that those who questioned his coronation as the best since Bid were treated when voicing concerns, and you will see why some people just flat out got sick of hearing it.
The arrogance shown by his fans was incredible.
You have to expect some **** back at you, thats how the game is played.
As far as the horse goes? Well, its a shame he won't run at age 4, maybe he would joined the elites.

Whose fault is it that Bernardini never gets looked in the eye, when Lava Man is life and death to beat the vaunted Brother Derek, Magnum, Super Frolic triumverate over and over again? Should Bernardini slow down and look horses in the eye like Seabiscuit? It's hilarious. You're criticizing him for being too fast. I'm sure if Bernardini had "looked in the eye" of Wanderin Boy or Bluegrass Cat or Sweetnorthernsaint and "fought to win," you'd all be praising him, right? Bull****. Everyone would be on their "he struggled to win" high horse. All this ****ing west coast horse does is beat up on the same tired nags all year long, and you want to give him more credit because he's a "fighter"? How about he's just slower than Bernardini? You really think Bernardini would've had to be urged to beat Brother Derek by 2 1/4?

Those were your words Ateam, I can cut and paste also.

They were all happy to be cashing to be honest with you. I'm not kidding, they were all just as thrilled.

I give full props to Invasor. He beat Bernie fair and square. But one thing that I'm guilty of and many of you are gulity of is putting too much emphasis on one race. If these two horses faced each other again in a small field in New York next month, I would not be surprised if Bernie turned the tables on him. How many times have we seen "Horse A" beat "Horse B", but then when they face each other again, "Horse B" beats "Horse A".

There are so many factors. Invasor may have moved up on the surface at Churchill. Who knows? Would Invasor beat Bernie in a 5 horse field at Aqueduct next month? I don't know.

It's really easy to get lose confidence in a horse when they lose, but the truth of the matter is that most great horses have lost races. There are some horses that retire undefeated but not too many. Even Secretariat lost a few races. I think he had a couple of medicore 3rd place finishes.

Anyway, all of that being said, I don't think that Bernardini is quite as good as many of us thought. But on the other hand, one race doesn't prove that much. If you judge Invasor on his nose victory over Sun King, he doesn't look like anything special.

LMAO, that's stupid!

I'm sure if the horse had won by 10, you'd still be criticizing anyone who bet him at even money or singled him.


and if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass every time he hopped.


thing is, he didn't win by ten..so what's the point?

So you're saying that these casual fans heard all the hype, tuned in, and then were totally disillusioned because one of the hyped horses finished second? If they were then these were not fans to be counted on for the long term anyway.

Since you brought it up, I didn't understand the hype that this was some type of showdown between Bernardini and Lava Man. What about the rest of the field and in particular Invasor? I really don't know why Invasor wasn't, and still isn't a hyped horse. He is tough and consistently awesome.

everyone i work with knows i'm a fan....i didn't have one question about it today at work.
like i said the other day, isn't that why we come here?? talking about horses to virtual strangers, cause no one else knows or cares about it....
bernardini winning or losing saturday didn't mean anything long term for this sport. it doesn't matter one bit who wins each race. the only affect bernardini will have long term on horse racing is whether he's a success at stud or not.

Sounds like Bernardini is the only horse that ever lost a race....

Jim, did you see the poster that they (ESPN? BC? NTRA?) put out? It pretty much said screw Invasor, Sun King, etc. Its all about those two. Thats where I took the Lava Man/Bernardini thing from...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/bc_man...oster_2006.pdf

Also, I do think that seeing Bernardini win impressively would have been better than seeing him run 2nd. I think he ran a great second, but to some - esecially non sports fans - 2nd, no matter how good/bad it is, is just a losing effort. I do think that the fans that he could have attracted woudl have been s you said people not to be counted on, but you never know. I'd rather have the fans for a couple of months than not at all. Its not provable that he'd have indeed brought in more fans but that's just how I feel. Tons of individual horses have brought fans to the game - Funny Cide brought a ton in I think (he got me hooked), Smarty Jones, Point Given was the one who first got me interested. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that most people on here could pinpoint one of the 'greats' that brought them in - Slew, Affirmed, Secretariat, etc. Not all, but quite a few. I'm not comparing Bernardini to those, because he isnt, but wouldnt it have been great if he was? THen again, wouldnt it have been great if he had no nuts? LOL

I think it's a fair question that we'll never know the answer to. I think in one turn races in NY that Bernardini could very easily have turned the tables. For sure in races up to 9F the outcome could very well have been in doubt. In longer two turn races I give the edge to Invasor. I think one of Invasors strengths is that he seems to get better with added distance. He has a lot of stamina. In his 12F Group 1 race in Uruguay he faced 12 horses and won easily by more than six lengths.

You're right. You can cut and paste. Now all you need is a point to argue, and you'll be set.

Ease up there slim. I'm not sure if you noticed, but I left the old board a week before the BC, and it had nothing to do with racing. I decided that I didn't like how much some of the bull**** that was said on there was bothering me, so I pretty much stepped back and took a reality check. I'd say this is something you should've done a long time ago, but I think you've always been this obnoxious.

The point is it's much easier to ridicule those who bet Bernardini to even money and singled him after he loses.

They all lose(except Personal Ensign). Thats kinda the point.
Ghostzapper never got spoken about with the sheer obnoxious attitude that Berns' fans had. Even to the end, some had doubts about the mile and a quarter.
Ironically, Ateam was the guy on our old board who was his biggest outright supporter. I myself had a little doubt about GZ and the 10 furlongs. But after I saw that race, I was just convinced he was the best horse i ever saw.

The way Bern was spoken about by his fans, and the way that those with doubts about him were spoken to is the issue. In reality 31 lengths? Honestly? I wish he was running next year. He may have been a Bid, and Affirmed, or a Zapper. But we won't ever know.
This was never really about bern the horse, it was just like the USC fans last year, just so over the top that you had to hate them even if you really didn't.