Personally I have never been this lost regarding a horse. My heart wants him to win the Belmont. My head tells me he is dressed up. I have read some smart people say that the slop makes it hard to take anything definitive away from the Preakness. The one thing I am sure of is that AP loves the slop. His romp in Arkansas and now yesterday confirms that. So the slop helped him. He ran hard early to make the lead, and came home slow. This is understandable. Again he was never really asked to run, he just glided around the track. Some people say the fresh shooters are more dangerous, well did yesterday take anything out of AP? I'm not sure it did. I don't know what to make of this horse. I said it on here after the Derby I think he romps in the Preakness and gets beat in the Belmont. I'm not sure about that anymore. I think turning for home he is clear, who is running him down? 20 days and we find out.

Who's tot say Verve isn't a quality horse.... His connections and breeding, not to mention looks are all TOP SHELF... don't dismiss late bloomers

I also think he's one of the hardest horses to gauge I've ever seen.

visually impressive, I am just waiting for the speed figure to come out. But all the haters I have read have all been East Coast experts mainly from NY

102 beyer I believe.

He is a plodder who isn't very good. I don't think that takes away from AP. They flew the first quarter and literally no one else ran. He probably liked the slop just like AP. I highly doubt he ever wins a stakes. He was all out at 3-5 to beat an Eoin Harty horse at Keeneland in a MSW the race before.

Can you show me an example of a "hater" and what they said regarding American Pharoah?

I guess hater is a strong word, pessimistic is more like it.

I read and saw things like

slowest preakness, bad field, Tale of Verve 2nd speaks to the quality of field, blah blah blah. Beyer speed fig will be below 100, if they do come up with a figure it will be a guess

Did you just call Dallas Stewart a top shelf trainer?

I'd imagine all that you're reading is from people who know the odds of him winning the tc are long. Time after time something happens to prevent it. No one knows what it'll be, but they probably figure they have to say something handicapping related....because any one can say 'who knows?'

Regarding tale of verve...he might be a late bloomer, a one hit wonder, or a horse who liked the slop.

What's wrong with Dallas Stewart..Fipke? Tapit? i can think of worse

Or a horse that came from far back in a fast paced race.

I like your AVATAR but your FLW quote, excuse me, sucks. Nothing against you but Frank was a midget with an ego 10 times his size to make up for it. He designed and built buildings, homes the way he wanted not the way the client wanted. And if they didn't like it he said lump it and took his drafting pencils home. As a very experienced Architect myself, it just irks me when I see FLW quotes. The world, unknowingly I hope, has made way too much of him. I can name at least 10 architects more important than he is. He would have liked to have been the "second coming" and well . . . I could go on about his little self but this is not the forum for it . . . sorry. Nothing against you at all . . . just Frank.

I like the quote itself. Who said it means nothing to me. Sorry you don't care for it.

Well, that too.

If it means something to you excellent!!! My only beef is with the overly popularized Frank Lloyd Wright, a creative visionary but an average Architect at best. Nuff said back to horse racing.:)

TMI Ralph.

:D

:D

Well, this thread was a fun read.

Yes, AP's time was slow, hardly a surprise considering the track condition. Hustled to the lead, his opening half was fast enough, and then he relaxed. He did exactly what VE asked him to do. The horse eventually separated himself from the field, and Victor barely even showed him the whip in the stretch, so the time means next to nothing to me.

I know "the odds" are against him winning the Belmont, but I'm liking his chances, even against Frosted and the Pletcher trio. This horse shows heart.

But what do I know. I even like FLW.

Somewhere between Go For Gin and Smarty Jones.