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-   -   Brother Derek (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5518)

ateamstupid 10-11-2006 02:57 PM

Latest report has him and Giacomo in the Classic.

Pointg5 10-11-2006 03:03 PM

I thought he ran a nice race on Saturday, hopefully he progresses to be a nice 4yo...

FATPIANO 10-11-2006 03:40 PM

Brother Derek should stay in California, Whenever he runs elsewhere he comes in 4th.........Derby,Preakness and Juvenile..He is a cut below, but in California, he is a cut above..........

boswd 10-11-2006 05:07 PM

Brother Derek over hyped hmmmm. I don't know. Going into the Derby who was a deserving morning line favorite. He won everything he had too. After the Derby it seems there has been allot of excuses made for him, some have merit, some don't.
IMO I think Hendricks took a huge gamble with Bro Derek going into his fall campaign and up to this point has failed. I think it was a huge mistake keeping him from the major summer stakes races for 3 yr olds. Either he was secretly hurt or sore or just bad strategy. Sort of reminds me of Phletcher and Flower Ally But either way his stock has fallen drastically. A shocking upset in the BC is a must otherwise we'll see how he is as a four yr old.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 07:23 PM

Bro. Derek needs to stay in Cal if they want him to win anymore.

King Glorious 10-11-2006 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
Bro. Derek needs to stay in Cal if they want him to win anymore.

He could surely have beaten a sorry field like that one in the Indiana Derby. He could have won the WV Derby. There are plenty of fields outside of California that he can beat. He just won't beat a horse like Bernardini or Barbaro even if they ran the race in his dreams.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
He could surely have beaten a sorry field like that one in the Indiana Derby. He could have won the WV Derby. There are plenty of fields outside of California that he can beat. He just won't beat a horse like Bernardini or Barbaro even if they ran the race in his dreams.

Why bother shipping him for those kinds of races when he can find similiar or better in Cal and win them?

SniperSB23 10-11-2006 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
Why bother shipping him for those kinds of races when he can find similiar or better in Cal and win them?

There weren't any he could have won in Cal for anywhere near the purses of those races. The Del Mar meet really lacks in 3yo dirt racing.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
There weren't any he could have won in Cal for anywhere near the purses of those races. The Del Mar meet really lacks in 3yo dirt racing.

So wait until the Hollywood meet or Santa Anita meet. Besides, I wouldn't run a dog on that Del Mar track......
BTW, when was his first race back since his layoff?

Bold Reasoning 10-11-2006 08:02 PM

Brother Derek could have run in the Pegasus at the Meadowlands in NJ(on his way to Churchill). I think he would have defeated one of the weakest fields in the history of that race.

King Glorious 10-11-2006 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
Why bother shipping him for those kinds of races when he can find similiar or better in Cal and win them?

The Swaps is the only big race in California for 3yo's on the dirt after the TC. The purse there is $250k, $350k if u are a BC eligible horse. The purse for the WV Derby is $750k. For the Indiana Derby it's $500k. The Super Derby was run for $500k. Do u still have to ask why bother?

SniperSB23 10-11-2006 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
So wait until the Hollywood meet or Santa Anita meet. Besides, I wouldn't run a dog on that Del Mar track......

I just have a tough time fathoming how there can be so many easy races for 3yos with huge purses at all these tracks throughout the midwest and east coast and more decent horses aren't shipping in for them.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
The Swaps is the only big race in California for 3yo's on the dirt after the TC. The purse there is $250k, $350k if u are a BC eligible horse. The purse for the WV Derby is $750k. For the Indiana Derby it's $500k. The Super Derby was run for $500k. Do u still have to ask why bother?

Yes, why bother shipping a horse outside of California that won't/can't win outside of California? Now do you understand what I am saying about the horse? I was trying to be nice to his fans.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23
I just have a tough time fathoming how there can be so many easy races for 3yos with huge purses at all these tracks throughout the midwest and east coast and more decent horses aren't shipping in for them.

I have had the same question myself. I guess alot of it has to do the the grade of the race. Anymore, owners seem to be more concerned with graded stakes (gr. 1s) than the purses, because it's the grade of the race that makes the difference in the breeding shed rather than amount of money won, it seems.

King Glorious 10-11-2006 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
Yes, why bother shipping a horse outside of California that won't/can't win outside of California? Now do you understand what I am saying about the horse? I was trying to be nice to his fans.

That's silly. Are u saying that if the Derby was in Cali, he would have beaten Barbaro? If the Preakness was in Cali, he would have beaten Bernardini? If that's your belief, this is useless. The fact is that he wasn't going to win those races no matter where they were held. But if he had shipped to the Indiana Derby or the WV Derby, he wouldn't have been facing Barbaro and Bernardini. It wasn't where the races were being held that was getting him beat. He can ship to Japan and beat horses like Cielo Gold and Star Dabbler. Come on now.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
That's silly. Are u saying that if the Derby was in Cali, he would have beaten Barbaro? If the Preakness was in Cali, he would have beaten Bernardini? If that's your belief, this is useless. The fact is that he wasn't going to win those races no matter where they were held. But if he had shipped to the Indiana Derby or the WV Derby, he wouldn't have been facing Barbaro and Bernardini. It wasn't where the races were being held that was getting him beat. He can ship to Japan and beat horses like Cielo Gold and Star Dabbler. Come on now.

Did I say anything about him beating Barbaro or Bernardini???? What I am saying is the horses' style of running is more suited to Cal. He's a Cal-bred, and he needs to stay in Cal. He needs to run with his caliber of horses, and hope no big dawgs ship in for the big races next year. He was the best 3yr. old in Cal this year. Can he be the best 4 yr. old in Cal next year? I don't see it.
Kentucky Derby, Preakness in Cal??? Ha. And no, Bro D. still wouldn't have beaten any of the TC winners this year had they ran the races in Cal.

King Glorious 10-11-2006 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
Did I say anything about him beating Barbaro or Bernardini???? What I am saying is the horses' style of running is more suited to Cal. He's a Cal-bred, and he needs to stay in Cal. He needs to run with his caliber of horses, and hope no big dawgs ship in for the big races next year. He was the best 3yr. old in Cal this year. Can he be the best 4 yr. old in Cal next year? I don't see it.
Kentucky Derby, Preakness in Cal??? Ha. And no, Bro D. still wouldn't have beaten any of the TC winners this year had they ran the races in Cal.

So u say he needs to run with his caliber of horses. In other words, u are saying that he couldn't run with Star Dabbler or Cielo Gold or Bright One? Are u seriously suggesting that those horses outclass him? If not, then why couldn't he ship to Indiana and run with them? If u are saying there is no need to ship to the Haskell, the Jim Dandy, or the Travers.....I'd go along with that. But to say he couldn't run with the horses that were in the Indiana Derby based simply on the fact that the race wasn't in California is a pretty silly opinion.

Blue Eyes 10-11-2006 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
So u say he needs to run with his caliber of horses. In other words, u are saying that he couldn't run with Star Dabbler or Cielo Gold or Bright One? Are u seriously suggesting that those horses outclass him? If not, then why couldn't he ship to Indiana and run with them? If u are saying there is no need to ship to the Haskell, the Jim Dandy, or the Travers.....I'd go along with that. But to say he couldn't run with the horses that were in the Indiana Derby based simply on the fact that the race wasn't in California is a pretty silly opinion.

OK, so why the hell didn't his trainer ship him for those races??? The horse has proven he's not a great shipper. Why ship him out of the state to lose???

disappearingdan_akaplaya 10-11-2006 11:13 PM

http://drf.com/news/article/79496.html

King Glorious 10-11-2006 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes
OK, so why the hell didn't his trainer ship him for those races??? The horse has proven he's not a great shipper. Why ship him out of the state to lose???

Think about what u are saying here for just a moment. U saying he's afraid to ship him out of state to face the vaunted Star Dabbler and Cielo Gold in the Indiana Derby......but willing to ship him out of state to face Bernardini and Invasor as well as Lava Man? What kind of sense does this make? U say that horse has proven he's not a great shipper only because he lost races that he would have lost anywhere. If he was facing Bernardini and Barbaro in California, he still would have lost. Then would u say that he needs to ship to Mexico because he's proven that he's not able to win in the U.S.? He lost those races not due to shipping but due to facing better horses, something that he wouldn't have had to do in Indiana or West Virginia. If he was shipping and losing to the same horses that he had beaten in Cali, then u would have a point. But there is nothing to suggest shipping has been the problem. The competition has.


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