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-   -   ATR Hall of Fame Debate: Gio Ponti? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44083)

Cannon Shell 10-14-2011 06:59 PM
Sky Classic might have a better resume
Paradise Creek was a better horse

OldDog 11-02-2011 07:07 AM
Quote:
Gio Ponti no second fiddle

Thoroughbred stars are anointed often prematurely at ages 2 and 3 and are too often sent to stud before the depth of their ability if fully realized. Grass horses come into their own with maturity and American breeders are attempting to produce Derby winners not turf champions.

"He raced in the Breeders' Cup as a 2-year-old," said trainer Christophe Clement, the Frenchman who has engineered Gio Ponti's career without interruption since its beginning. "He's 6 now, and he's still competing in the Breeders' Cup. That doesn't happen very often."
http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/stor...-second-fiddle

:{>:

GPK 11-02-2011 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 814428)
The article was going along just fine...until this:

"Though head and withers the best American turf horse in training, perhaps the best since Manila dominated the division in the mid 1980s..."

FATPIANO 11-02-2011 09:16 AM
He will win the mile, with Goldi second, cold exacta

KirisClown 11-02-2011 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK (Post 814429)
The article was going along just fine...until this:

"Though head and withers the best American turf horse in training, perhaps the best since Manila dominated the division in the mid 1980s..."
Gio Ponti is a nice/consistent horse and it's great he's stayed in training, but the best since Manila?? It's hard to believe that someone in their right mind would actually believe that..

blackthroatedwind 11-02-2011 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirisClown (Post 814448)
Gio Ponti is a nice/consistent horse and it's great he's stayed in training, but the best since Manila?? It's hard to believe that someone in their right mind would actually believe that..
I love Gio Ponti. He couldn't have warmed up the likes of Lure or Paradise Creek. Bad opinions foster bad opinions.

Indian Charlie 11-02-2011 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK (Post 814429)
The article was going along just fine...until this:

"Though head and withers the best American turf horse in training, perhaps the best since Manila dominated the division in the mid 1980s..."
The author even misspells his own last name!

KirisClown 11-02-2011 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 814450)
I love Gio Ponti. He couldn't have warmed up the likes of Lure or Paradise Creek. Bad opinions foster bad opinions.
Agreed, those are the two I immediately had in mind.. The author of that piece has been around long enough to know better, it feels like it's an opinion based on sentiment rather than fact..

Indian Charlie 11-02-2011 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 814450)
I love Gio Ponti. He couldn't have warmed up the likes of Lure or Paradise Creek. Bad opinions foster bad opinions.
Certainly you could think of another 20-30 since Manila that were better than GP.

GPK 11-02-2011 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirisClown (Post 814448)
Gio Ponti is a nice/consistent horse and it's great he's stayed in training, but the best since Manila?? It's hard to believe that someone in their right mind would actually believe that..
That's when I quit reading the article. Like Andy said, bad opinions foster bad opinions. There probably wasn't a bigger fan of English Channel than me (My God, I still have his name on my license plate) but English Channel doesn't belong in the HOF and English Channel would have handled Gio Ponti with no problem.

Clip-Clop 11-02-2011 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK (Post 814459)
That's when I quit reading the article. Like Andy said, bad opinions foster bad opinions. There probably wasn't a bigger fan of English Channel than me (My God, I still have his name on my license plate) but English Channel doesn't belong in the HOF and English Channel would have handled Gio Ponti with no problem.
Yeah, that.

blackthroatedwind 11-02-2011 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 814455)
Certainly you could think of another 20-30 since Manila that were better than GP.
I don't know about quite that many, as he is good, and has been for a while, and the US turf horses are a pretty weak group, and have been for years. But, I'm sure there are more than a handful.

I think the Hall of Fame has been too liberal over the years with some of their inductees. However, hopefully the internet vote hasn't go so far as to now naming Hall of Fame members. Wasn't electing an undeserving Horse of the Year bad enough?

Calzone Lord 11-02-2011 11:47 AM
You can get 10-to-1 on Gio Ponti right now off-shore.

blackthroatedwind 11-02-2011 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 814480)
You can get 10-to-1 on Gio Ponti right now off-shore.
To make the Hall of Fame?

Calzone Lord 11-02-2011 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 814488)
To make the Hall of Fame?
I'd take that on the basis of the poll results in this thread.

But no, to win the Mile.

OldDog 11-02-2011 12:49 PM
I only attached this to the HOF thread in order to not start a new Gio thread. Other than what I quoted above, what I was taking more to the point of the article was

Quote:
In a setting on the eastern shore of the Atlantic, the Mile would be seen as the best race on the Breeders' Cup menu, a rematch of champions with the potential for high drama. In Louisville, beyond the question to be answered (or not) by Goldikova, the focus will be on the Classic and horses far less accomplished.
A lot of time is spent talking about the durability of the thoroughbred. Here is a horse (not a gelding) competing consistently for years in Grade 1 company, and doing damn well at it, while we spend hours discussing horses who head for the shed with a dozen or fewer starts. It's easy for owners to say, "We love racing." But show me more than a few today who run a horse this long in G1 races. I take my hat off to Shane Ryan, and Christophe Clement, and win or lose Saturday, to Gio Ponti.

Indian Charlie 11-02-2011 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 814500)
I only attached this to the HOF thread in order to not start a new Gio thread. Other than what I quoted above, what I was taking more to the point of the article was



A lot of time is spent talking about the durability of the thoroughbred. Here is a horse (not a gelding) competing consistently for years in Grade 1 company, and doing damn well at it, while we spend hours discussing horses who head for the shed with a dozen or fewer starts. It's easy for owners to say, "We love racing." But show me more than a few today who run a horse this long in G1 races. I take my hat off to Shane Ryan, and Christophe Clement, and win or lose Saturday, to Gio Ponti.
Had he a more fashionable pedigree, and/or won a couple of those BC races he's been in, he'd have been standing stud well before next year.

blackthroatedwind 11-02-2011 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 814500)
I only attached this to the HOF thread in order to not start a new Gio thread. Other than what I quoted above, what I was taking more to the point of the article was



A lot of time is spent talking about the durability of the thoroughbred. Here is a horse (not a gelding) competing consistently for years in Grade 1 company, and doing damn well at it, while we spend hours discussing horses who head for the shed with a dozen or fewer starts. It's easy for owners to say, "We love racing." But show me more than a few today who run a horse this long in G1 races. I take my hat off to Shane Ryan, and Christophe Clement, and win or lose Saturday, to Gio Ponti.
You do understand that he's racing because he has no real value as a sire...right?

Once again, I'm not knocking Gio Ponti. I've been a fan since his debut, and have made plenty of money betting him at different times, but let's at least be honest.

blackthroatedwind 11-02-2011 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 814502)
Had he a more fashionable pedigree, and/or won a couple of those BC races he's been in, he'd have been standing stud well before next year.
I think we both need to remember how lopsided the vote is in this thread. It puts things in a more proper perspective.

Calzone Lord 11-02-2011 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 814500)
I only attached this to the HOF thread in order to not start a new Gio thread. Other than what I quoted above, what I was taking more to the point of the article was



A lot of time is spent talking about the durability of the thoroughbred. Here is a horse (not a gelding) competing consistently for years in Grade 1 company, and doing damn well at it, while we spend hours discussing horses who head for the shed with a dozen or fewer starts. It's easy for owners to say, "We love racing." But show me more than a few today who run a horse this long in G1 races. I take my hat off to Shane Ryan, and Christophe Clement, and win or lose Saturday, to Gio Ponti.

He's probably worth more on the track than in the breeding shed. Our turf races are a joke -- and breeders don't fall for late running American turf horses as stallions.

Gio Ponti RNA'd real cheap as a 2yo (I believe at the FT Calder 2yo sale) -- I doubt his offspring will be prime candidates for pinhookers at yearling sales either.


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