You do realize these are strictly estimates right?

When anything gets into that high numbers, it becomes an estimate.

Chuck, it would appear that any information that puts ILLEGAL immigration in a bad light does not settle well with you.

What I meant was that he was making more on Unemployment than being a Manager at Pizza Hutt.

I understand he has managing experience, and he could be holding out for a similar position, but to ignore an opportunity to increase his pay by $300 a week is a disservice to his family.

I haven't seen him since October, so things may have changed, but I won't know until I see him again in a month.

No inaccurate information from laughingly biased sites does not settle well. Getting "rid of" illegal aliens will make your life more expensive and is another enormously misunderstood issue because of the misuse of information. If it costs 500 bilion to secure the border that 113 billion that illegals are supposedly costs us would look like a drop in the bucket.

Then I guess, according to your way of thinking, we should just open up the borders and let anyone just march in as they damn well please.

http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/

i'm absolutely sure, princess, that's exactly what he means. :rolleyes: people always go from one extreme to another, and then wonder why their opinion gets discounted.

if you actually got rid of everyone here that wasn't a citizen, the price of goods would skyrocket, and the deficit would skyrocket.
by the same token, if you made a path to citizenship for all here illegally, the same would happen.
if you 'let them all in', we'd have a mess as well. the govt is doing it's very best to act as tho they want to change things, while keeping the status quo, as economically it makes the most sense. illegals who commit crimes are unwelcome here. the problem with that part of it is no one has a crystal ball to see the future and recognize ahead of time who those people are.

most illegals that some on here are in a rush to disparage are hard working folks who only seek to make a better life. they come here to work because it's better than at home, with them trading better pay and working conditions for feeding our federal budget with nothing to show for it later.

Instead of discounting information offered, it would be nice for someone to come up with facts and figures from a reputable source to indicate that illegal immigration is not costing the American tax payers exorbitant amounts of money.:rolleyes:

At this stage and numbers of illegals, we can't just "kick them all out" even though it was promised in 1986 that something like this would never happen again.:rolleyes: I fully realize that, but the government is not doing its best to control the situation. If they were, then employers employing illegals would be called to task, the social security administration would not allow an illegal to obtain a SS number, law enforcement hands are tied dealing with illegals who commit crimes - it's another don't ask don't tell situation. How bad does it have to get before an illegal is deported? How many of them actually are? Or, are they taking up USA taxpayer money by languishing in US jails which is probably better than any kind of accommodation they can get in their mother country?

The vast majority of illegals are here to work, to make a better life for themselves and their families. I don't doubt that. But, the fact remains that they are here ILLEGALLY and far too many people in this country, especially our lawmakers, have become comfortable with the situation. Amnesty is on the table because lawmakers of a certain ilk want that vote. Amnesty when the one in 1986 was promised to be the last one.

According to the information that you have given us that is already the case.

The point I am trying to make isnt that we shouldn't tighten our borders to stem the tide of illegals entering the country. It is that they contribute quite a bit yet those contributions are often twisted or simply overrlooked when trying to understand the issue.

Perhaps the best way to solve the issue wil never be done because of political pandering, that is to come up with a much better work visa program.

Far too often the phrase "taxpayers money" is tossed around. The truth is that the majority of taxpayers money is wasted by the people we elect to office, not people sneaking accross the border to be dishwashers, grooms, fruit pickers and maids.

the govt doesn't allow illegals to obtain ss numbers. it ignores the fact that money flowing in is flowing in on invalid numbers, thus ensuring the money coming in never pays out to that same number. illegals contribute quite a lot of money to taxes, while never having a way to get that money back upon retirement. that money is what helps ss/the feds to remain solvent. and yes, they are here under illegal means. however, we benefit more from them being here in that way then if we were to grant them citizenship or amnesty. why? because if they become citizens, they can get the money they pay into the system back out. have you heard the phrase cut off ones nose to spite ones face? no doubt you have, and that's exactly what you're proposing to do here. this isn't a black and white issue, in that it's either all good, or all bad.
ask yourself, why has nothing been changed in spite of the talk, the rhetoric, and the demand that 'we must do something'? it's because of what i said before, money. illegals trying to work the system are shown the door. those who contribute, who work, are not. employers who write down an ss number and contribue their matching money thru social security are left alone. employers who pay under the table are raided.

do you really think the govt would do nothing had they crunched the numbers and found we were losing funds due to the illegals??? yeah, right. the govt may be self absorbed, eager only for re-election...but they aren't stupid.

teach a US registered potential human broodmare with a less than valuable pedigree to become a equine hot-walker/groom instead or tax her and then look at the savings. Multiply that by all illegal jobs and we're talking big!

lol
yeah, cause our upright citizens are begging for menial jobs with base pay. :rolleyes: too easy to get on the dole.

not upright, but plenty of those on the dole to go around......and though broke obese at the same time. :D

Great experience at the grocery store tonight, while waiting in line to get coffee and bread the lady in front with a huge order but checked out has problems getting her card to go thru the right way. This woman's English comprehension seemed to be hey. After showing her which, way to point the magnetic strip I find it's a 'food stamp credit card' WTF with $479 balance after buying almost $100 WTF. Then she gets in a Escalade and knows how to operate the key-bob remote. WTF?

i'd ask if her name was tara, but i remember that you live in ill, and my brother and his brood are in n.c.

This was in WI, in a resort town. She did have IL plates.

Big surprise there. Someone in a nice car with a food stamp credit card. I'm sure she will claim it isn't her car and she was borrowing it. She might say the car belongs to someone else in her family.

ah yes. the legendary welfare queen. a staple for many years.

glad to see she's now a hispanic immigrant and no longer black.

change is good.

you'd think she'd have moved on from a cadillac though. the updated queen i see more as a mercedes driver. it would be a better story if she wasn't buying american.

here's another true story:

i once saw a gang of republican's beat a homeless women to death when she wouldn't convert to christianity. seriously.

in simi valley, ca. that detail makes it more likely to be true.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/doe...ion-cost-jobs/


Summary
Do immigrants take American jobs? It’s a common refrain among those who want to tighten limits on legal immigration and deny a "path to citizenship" — which they call "amnesty" — to the millions of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally. There’s even a new Reclaim American Jobs Caucus in the House, with at least 41 members.

But most economists and other experts say there’s little to support the claim. Study after study has shown that immigrants grow the economy, expanding demand for goods and services that the foreign-born workers and their families consume, and thereby creating jobs. There is even broad agreement among economists that while immigrants may push down wages for some, the overall effect is to increase average wages for American-born workers.

also:

But whether they’re legal, as in the CFAW ad, or illegal, as in our two other examples, really doesn’t matter for the purpose of answering our question: The truth is that immigrants don’t "take American jobs," according to most economists and others who have studied the issue.

Immigrant workers "create almost as many" jobs as they occupy, "and maybe more," said Madeleine Sumption, policy analyst at the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute, which is funded by a range of foundations, corporations and international organizations. "They often create the jobs they work in." In addition, "they buy things, and they make the economy bigger," she told us. As she and a co-author wrote in a report last year for a group created by the British government:

Somerville and Sumption: [T]he impact of immigration [on a nation's economy] remains small, for several reasons. Immigrants are not competitive in many types of jobs, and hence are not direct substitutes for natives. Local employers increase demand for low-skilled labor in areas that receive low-skilled immigrant inflows. Immigrants contribute to demand for goods and services that they consume, in turn increasing the demand for labor. And immigrants contribute to labor market efficiency and long-term economic growth.

Three different web-sites listing the pros and cons of illegal immigration -

http://immigration.procon.org/view.r...ourceID=000842

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/immigration.htm

http://www.illegalimmigrationstatist...pros-and-cons/