No, you don't know that, and its arrogant to think that you do.
Yes, Joel and I get in each others faces a lot on here. But like the other night when I saw a thread title and jumped on DaHoss(who I later apologized to) I didn't even note the author and leaped into a response.
I did the same thing here, whether you think so or not.
Pais, gander starts threads like this all the time, you can ask him, and I have been much rougher on him. And thats a guy I have known and been friends with for over 20 years. Don't have too many friends in this world that I have known longer than gander. But when he starts one of his negativity threads I'm the first one to jump up and down and scream thats stupid.
Joel then turned it personal by bashing a grade one winner I bought. Thats fine. When he is associated with a grade one winner, he will find that I won't bash the horse, regardless of what I think of him.
You, working with horses, ought to appreciate how tough it is for any horse to win a grade one. How many did you take care of, or feed, or brush, before you touched the great henny Hughes? My guess is one HELL of a lot of them.
Brother Derek is a grade one winner(duel) and showed a lot of talent and desire and speed earlier this year. he may not be as good as he was advertised or that the hype spouted about him deserved, he may now be past his prime already, but calling him a fraud off one layoff race that we don't know the details of is certainly foolish in my opinion.

Oracle is right, he has jumped on many of my posts, some for good reasons and maybe some for just his own opinions which I strongly disagree with. But an hour later when we see each other the last thing we do is argue about what was said on the internet.

I have been very guilty for letting my personal bets affect what I have written on here about certain horses (not lately though).

If you can find a fault with Lava Man, you can find a fault with everything. Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Albert Pujols, Derek Jeter, etc.

I didn't mean you and joel I meant steve's frustration....

I don't think it is appropriate to bash horses for any reason because they are never the one's responsible for the hype surrounding them (brother Derek) nor are they responsible when they running out of their ability level (ex. Funny Cide)--Yup I groomed a buch of nags in addition to Henny...
But I also don't really think it's useful to bash a trainer when his horse throws a bad race--pre-race comments are not always true, but on the other hand a horse can fool his trainer too and then the trainer is left with egg on his face...
Last week a very famous trainer said to me...'I don't understand it I've got all the favorites and can't win a f*cking race' Obviously that is not going to be printed in the DRF....

:rolleyes: a shame that bro derek takes so much heat for his return...he's probably won more $ this year, certainly more races, than the highly esteemed flower alley, among others....not that it matters!
i think bashing of some horses on here has far more to do with geographic location and pedigree than actual effort...

lava man for being a westerner, and by world famous slew city slew:rolleyes:

and then invasor, altho based on the east coast, most wouldn't recognize a horse in his bloodlines, and he came from (gasp) south america. no blueblood there either.

tis a shame, the horses have no clue where they are, or where they came from. it'd be nice if a horse got some props for winning, instead of getting bashed almost immediately because he's not legit...or first race back, a horse is rank, oh he must be a fraud. yeah, tell that to the owners accountant!


every horse loses, EVERY horse. what, two horses have retired as undefeated champs in the last century and a half...i guess every other horse out there is a fraud, since every other horse has a loss--or no doubt will.

LOL!!!
That trainer is certainly not the first guy to say something like that. And he won't be the last.
Steve knows DAMN well from our conversations off the board that there a few guys who I'm REALLY bashing!!!! Guys who make the guy I have bashed who is Steve's friend look like ****ing Ben or Jimmy jones!!!
I'm consistent in who I bash, perhaps you haven't read me long enough to know that. When I see guys who have a barn full of very expensive horses who consistently win very few or no races, they are gonna draw my wrath.
Ask Steve about our conversation about a certain guy named after a city in Texas.

.........hey, i caught that 4/2 exacta:D ...... bout the only race i hit at that horrible del mar.

that trainer is the same guy you are looking to send your new potential acquisition to BTW

You just stole my thunder you *****!! LOL!
I was about to end this with the punch line.
Yesterday at the Spa, I couldnt catch a break. Discouraged and about to walk out, I realized that the Bro Derek race was about to go off.
I liked the winner, and thought it was conceivable that Bro Derek could be out of the exacta. So I boxed up 2-4 and 4-5 for the same amount of money. And hoped that I could get the 4 home and have Derek not fire off the layoff.
I got lucky and he didn't.
The point is that i myself had no confidence in Bro yesterday at all. None. And I cashed by best ticket all day on that exacta (22 per buck was quite huge given that only 3 horses in a 5 horse field had any chance). But I'm not gonna be dumb enough to use that race he ran as an "end all and be all" of judging what he is, ane more importantly, what he was.

SHHHH, I already knew that(I know how he talks). And he's not my client. He's an often times partner's client. And hes also a perfectionist. If he won 10 of 11 races he'd bitch about the one he lost to anyone who would listen.
Thats what makes him so good, he hates losing and doesnt accept it well. And one of my clients wants that horse now badly, and it looks like thats where he will go if the accept the offer. Not another word about that on here please.

he's pretty funny that way actually...focus on the bad only that way you never look happy...
good for you if you get it done.

My main man grabbed me yesterday(he actually graced us with his presence yesterday) and I told him about the horse and he just said go!
He also hates losing. hes like the guy you are referring to, hates losing, and gets sick to his stomach when he does.

main man? the one with no cell service?

Oracle, you are very knowledgable, maybe more than anyone else here, but the personal attacks on Cunningham and his father are uncalled for. Saying a horse is a fraud (overrated) is not an attack. It is just saying the horse is not what people say he is. There are tons of horses like this. My brother has called Sunriver a fraud all year, and he likes the owners. That doesn't mean it is personal.

No Beth, the guy who took me out earlier in the meet and got me alcohol poisoning for two days.

that was my second guess---

Nor was my attack against Joel. And I'm not attacking his father in any way shape or form. he made what i felt was a moronic statement, I've treated my own friend Gander the same way on here. My attack was not personal, he did try to get personal then bashing a horse hes knows I bought. Are you that stupid Nostra to miss that?
read what others wrote on the thread, You act as if I was the only one picking on him. Others abused him as well. WHy not post something to them?

I dont understand how is he a fraud. How did he misrepresent himself? I dont get it. How can any horse be a fraud. He ran 4th in the BC Juvenile, 4the in the Derby and 4th in the Preakness. Then he has won those prep races in the spring. Again, it isnt Brother Derek's fault who he beat. He cannot help who his competition is. I dont remember Brother Derek coming out and saying he is the best. If he did then I missed it. I sometimes speak too soon and talk bad about a horse and that isnt right. But in Derek's case, he has been in all the big ones for over 1 year now. He has won some and loss some, but I dont know how you can say he or any horse is a fraud.

yeah, oracle goes at gander HARD:D

I am not that stupid, and I am very impressed by your purchase of a grade 1 horse, but you always bring up his money and his father's money. The sport is full of rich people. Is Landson IV going to get bashed because Lansdon III is loaded? Others bash him, sometimes I do, but never his families money. There would be no horse racing without rich people and their children.

I've called Lava Man a fraud and I regret doing so. A horse cannot be a fraud because they don't have the capacity to deceive someone out of money. I am retracting what I said and will now say that Lava Man is overrated and I apologize to all of the Lava Man fans who I offended.

Now Joel should do the same to JJ since the guy promoted Brother Derek and was extremely confident in him winning the Kentucky Derby and even touted him for the Preakness. In no way shape or form is JJ Graci a fraud and neither is Brother Derek.