Part of the problem with this argument is that you are taking it too literal when one uses the term "prep". I'm not really sure if it was Al Stall's intent to lose the JCGC but certainly its possible he didn't, in his judgement, "crank" the colt to full capacity. Or maybe he couldn't have the horse "fully crank" because he hadn't run in 6 weeks or so. Or maybe its all on the horse and he simply wasn't training as well as he did for the BC Classic.

Simply put, the running line for the JCGC was reflective of a classic "prep". That says nothing of the trainer's actual intent. See Thunder Gulch's Blue Grass, Sea Hero's Blue Grass, Unbridled's Blue Grass, Go For Gin's Wood, Unbridled's Super Derby, Tiznow's second Goodwood, Lemon Drop Kid's Jim Dandy, Street Sense's Kentucky Cup, etc. A lot of those efforts were, as you say, the result of pace scenario and other non-ideal conditions (which might be applicable to Unrivaled Belle--who finally got out of the sitting duck spot chasing clear frontrunners in the Distaff). But they still can be called "preps", if for no other reason than their respecitve trainers saw enough to continue on to the Big Dance afterwards.

At any rate, whether you want to say that Blame's JCGC was below par or not, it certainly wasn't a "stinker" or "horrible" as I have seen it referred to, and certainly should not mean that he doesn't deserve HOY.

I cant tell if your just trying to be a dumbass on purpose or what your issue is. You and I have discussed these ratings before, so you know I know what they are. I know who Harbinger is, you also know that. Blame should not be uttered in the same sentence as him. Was the Clark before the Classic last year? If so congrats for being clever about something.

Trying to be a dumbass? I'm not the one who said Zenyatta should be ranked first on that list.

Blame won the Fayette last year and it was run before the BC Classic. Zenyatta should be higher than 10th on that list, but she should not be first nor should she be ahead of Blame in my opinion.

About the other 2 things... Especially the ratings, you know we have discussed them. I even made a thread about them, asking how they worked MONTHS AGO.


Zenyatta is the best horse in America right now IMO. I guess nothing else matters.

how is she the best in america right now? she's faced one tough field this year, and it really wasn't even that much, and she didn't win. her wins over questionable competition the rest of the year doesn't give you any ammo to use in this fight.

She has run in the past 2 BCC faced over 20 males, I dont care how bad compared to past years they have been. Its been the best we have now, and she has beat all of them but 1, and thats was by a nostril. The connections should be slapped around for wasting time in the Ladies Classic 3 years back, that also cost her HOY. She would have won that also, no questions and would have finished ahead of Curlin and been HOY then.

and there you have it folks. don't take into consideration the competition, or lack thereof. the surface, the locale. if zenyatta did it, it's great. :rolleyes:

but you're perfectly right, she's one of the best lately. thanks for proving a point that a lot of people have been fruitlessly trying to make for the last couple of years. as for the curlin bcc, that's pure speculation-that and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee.

A hopped up Curlin would have crushed Z.

A non hopped up Curlin would have beaten her easily.

That's on dirt.

No, I disagree. Curlin tailed off at the end of his last year. What was so strong about his Woodward? His Classic was ****. Z has never tailed off.

First off, Z has never tailed off because she's been handled with kid gloves. Even you know that.

Second, a tailed off Curlin would have been able to at least be competitive with a non tailed off Zenyatta.

Can you be serious? Curlin almost lost to that plodder... I forget his name now, I think it was an Indian Charlie though. His Classic was **** and Im sure Z beats him and Ravens Pass.
Curlin was brillant 3x in his career, congrats. I think Z has proven to be something special, Im not trying to be annoying w/ it, but your being a total hater.

Past The Point? Some plodder. Didn't Curlin win that race by open lengths?

How out of touch are you?

Why does she beat Raven's Pass? Because she beat nothing but turf horses the following year?

Huh? The Arkansas Derby, Preakness, Belmont, JCGC, BC Classic, Dubai World Cup, Stephen Foster, etc.

In what races was Zenyatta brilliant?

I have him as brillant in the Preakness-Classic and Dubai.