Brock worked an unblinkered :10 and 3/5 at the Fasig-Tipton February sale and looked very smooth doing it, though I'll defer to Doug regarding the move because he watches way more of them than I do.

As far as Heisman, the dam's first foal broke her maiden by almost five lengths on the inner track and AGS broke his maiden, like Doug said, in a scintillating Polytrack win at Turfway. I wouldn't put it bast Heisman or Brock to be very strong at first asking while ultimately having the most success they can going long.

NT

One of the most overrated trainers in the game IMO. He's good with horses making their debut and for that reason alone he continues to get expensive horses that run one or two good races and then you need a searchlight to find them.

Its actually only one good race most of the time. He pops with a price on turf every so often, last week with Garcia last year at Toga with a NY bred that I forget the name of.
He bring Not Macho Any More back on Saturday, I think that race sets up nicely for him, but I have the same concerns you have... Bulls and Bears came back at Gulfstream and looked like a POS.
Sightseeks comment was a firster, and I dont see any problem betting him first out. I bet him first out when he beat Stay Thirsty.... You can still get a very fair price if Todd, Steve or anyone else has a big name horse going.

The guys firsters all get bet. I'm not sure how that equates to getting a fair price on them, but it's 2010. Everyone is privy to the same stats that show how good he does first out.

It's a catch 22, because you almost have to use his horses, but they rarely offer value IMO.

Exactly.

..

Can you break that down to Saratoga only? Was it last year that nearly every debuter he had went out 3/5 and didn't run to it?

Ill get you Toga...But you never said Toga you said first time out. HE RUNS BELMONT, HE DOMINATES THE BABY RACES, His firsters run Todds into the ground.

Sightseek... The Toga numbers are solid enough, if not really good.


13/63 16% $2.27ROI first out, Toga past 3 years.

Kind of like that firster you started a thread about this spring that did nothing? :p

Thanks for looking.

He's screwed me out of nice scores twice in the past three years by not having his big debut winners ready for stakes. Cribnote going to buy a beer in the grandstand in '08 and It's the Big Cat forgetting how to break from the gate this year. Like you said, he can win first time out and that's about it.

The only winner he has in a graded stake with a 2YO over the last five years is Worstcasescenario's win in the Adirondack last year. He also seems to have really stupid things happen in these races like Cribnote losing his mind, BUlls and BEars getting left, Bail Out the Cat being unprepared for the start, etc.

NT

Yeah, Bail Out the Cat, that's the horse. I got him confused with a rat NY-bred turf horse. It's the Big Cat at least could've broken with the field.

Its been three times for me your 2, plus Bulls and Bears.

I dont like Rick V bashing, please stop.

Yeah. Even though Brock's under-tack preview didn't exactly strike me as the type of horse I'm crazy about playing in a debut sprint - you have to respect a horse who pinhooks for 11.5 times his value six months later and sells for $2.3 million. He was basically like the first pick of the draft among the people putting up the money.

Or he is the guy who drafted Eli Manning first overall in their fantasy draft because he is a Giants fan.

Rick Violette at Saratoga with 2-year-olds has been an amazing angle going back at least as far as 1998. He goes out and gets the right type of horses for those races and he gets them ready.

Most of the time - those horses won't develop much. But there are exceptions like Dream Rush, High Finance, Read the Footnotes, Summer Doldrums etc.

He's a pretty solid turf trainer when given the kind of horse who isn't a win-early fast 2yo sale type. He developed Man From Wicklow well.

5 YEARS overall was horrible, I had to make it 3.