I don't know if IDrugS knows that in europe they do not solely use the simple ratings as we do in North America, firm, good, soft, yielding. He probably thinks he has nothing to learn in the game anymore, but in an effort to enlighten him, there is more to reading up on past p's than what is offered from the DRF.

Here is the link to Europe's preiminate Horseracing Publication that will end this. Where terms such as Good/Yielding, Good/Soft, Good, Soft apply, a much more accurate detailing of the amount of cut in the ground.

Obcourse he used I guess the DRF past p's to base his entire analysis that Hawk Wing was very effective on yielding ground. But in essence it was labeled as Good To soft in the Eclipse over his hapless stablemate Sholokhov. If this is what he is basing Hawk Wing is effective on softer ground, he is surely wrong. He just won't or cannot admit that he still has a few things to learn about European racing.

Here's Hawk Wing's complete Past p's according to Racing Post. You decide, obcourse the alternative is Coolmore has a dunce running their operation, one that cannot distuinguish ground conditions.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/hor...orse_id=547525

BTW notice the lost to Rock Of Gibralter on actual 'yielding' ground.

Here is the field for the Coral Eclispe that Hawk Wing won on Good to Soft ground, even the IDS would have to admit this was an atrocious field for a Grade 1. All of 5 horses.

Sandown Result
06 Jul 2002
« 3:35 » Coral Eurobet Eclipse Stakes Showcase Race (Class A) (Group 1) (Class 1) (3yo+) (1m2f7y) 1m2f Good To Soft
£188,500.00, £71,500.00, £35,750.00, £16,250.00, £8,125.00, £4,875.00

RESULT RATE RACE Hide all comments in running Show all pedigrees
HORSE/SP AGE WGT TRAINER/JOCKEY OR TS RPR

« 1 6 Hawk Wing (USA) 8/15F 3 8-10 A P O'Brien — * * »
b h Woodman (USA) - La Lorgnette (CAN) (Val De L'Orne) M J Kinane
Held up in 4th, smooth progress 3f out, led well over 1f out, shaken up and stayed on well final furlong (op 1-2 tchd 4-9 in places and 4-7 in places)

« 2 2 2½ Sholokhov (IRE) 14/1 3 8-10 A P O'Brien — * * »
b h Sadler's Wells (USA) - La Meilleure (Lord Gayle) P J Scallan
Led, ridden over 2f out, headed and wandered well over 1f out, not quicken after (op 12-1 tchd 16-1 in a place)

« 3 7 2½ Equerry (USA) 4/1 4 9-7 t Saeed Bin Suroor 113 * * »
b h St Jovite (USA) - Colour Chart (USA) (Mr Prospector) Frankie Dettori
Tracked leader to over 2f out, soon ridden, close up well over 1f out, one pace after (op 7-2)

« 4 1 3½ Imperial Dancer 33/1 4 9-7 M R Channon 114 * * »
b h Primo Dominie - Gorgeous Dancer (IRE) (Nordico) Chris Catlin
Tracked leading pair until 3f out, soon ridden and one pace (op 50-1)

« 5 5 3 Indian Creek 8/1 4 9-7 D R C Elsworth 114 * * »

^^^^ Doesn't know when to quit.

Why should I, because I busted him?

Yielding is an Irish term for Good-to-soft you friggen moron. Good to soft in England means the same exact thing as yielding in Ireland.

There are a whole lot of things I don't know about European racing.

You - on the other hand - are a hopeless jackass.

No answer on the Corel Eclipse, typical. Many returns.

You trying to pretend to know European racing has been the message board highlight of the year for me. Yes - winning a less than steller Group 1 race by 2.5 lengths is proof that Hawk Wing hates yielding ground.

Oh wait, it wasn't yielding it was "GOOD- to - soft"

Tears, Jerry. Tears.

The original premise incase you missed it was Hawk Wing was less effective on softer ground, cut in the ground, give, use whatever term you like. He was more effective on faster ground, that is what I said and you tried to defute it by being a smarty pie even when I produced quotes from his trainer that said otherwise by pulling up some old DRF past p's. You failed to look at that god awful field Hawk Wing beat which included the Coolmore pacemaker for many of their top horses then, did you know this? And insisting that this made him some admirable yielding/soft turf specialist. You may fool most of your minions here most of the time, but I know better. I set the record straight, and that is it. Good luck at PID.

If by "setting the record straight" you actually mean "I kicked my own ass in to oblivion" ... yeah, you sure did set the record straight.

You set the record straight all right.

You've removed all doubt.

Damn you!

Harbinger suffered a career threatening injury while working today. Ugh.

That's what efforts like that do.

Your points were clearly defuted.