Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I just hope he's been able to overcome his love for pink shirts.

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......i couldnt agree more. that place has become a nightmare for me. as you stated, the hollywood surface is alot closer to dirt .

Originally Posted by philcski

http://www.kentuckyoaks.com/2009/new...ng-about-four-

Pink accents my olive guid-ian skin. At least that's what the fashion TV shows tell me.

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

You're just about the only one out there with a clue as to pace.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You wont be getting a Christmas card from Randy Moss with comments like that.

Originally Posted by cmorioles

While I agree moisture has a lot to do with where winners come from (front or back) on synthetics, it has nothing to do with the figures. Even on wet synthetic tracks dominated by frontrunners, the figures come back "tighter" than they do on dirt tracks. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but just the way it is.

Originally Posted by cmorioles

While I agree moisture has a lot to do with where winners come from (front or back) on synthetics, it has nothing to do with the figures. Even on wet synthetic tracks dominated by frontrunners, the figures come back "tighter" than they do on dirt tracks. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but just the way it is.

One thing I find funny in these discussions is the way some people act like a front runner has never won on turf.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

one thing i love to see is a front end theft in a turf route, especially against a tough field. its like a thing of beauty when they pull it off.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

one thing i love to see is a front end theft in a turf route, especially against a tough field. its like a thing of beauty when they pull it off.

Originally Posted by rgustafson

Yes and especially the turf marathons, one and a half miles. There was a big gray horse that Pincay rode years ago out in SoCal. He'd send him right to the front and lope along. Any time a horse came to him, he would just let out another notch. He won quite a few races this way. Can't remember the horses name though.

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Fly Till Dawn?

Originally Posted by joeydb

Apparently 79 is the break even point: 79 Beyer = 79 Dirt equivalent Beyer. Go lower than that and the dirt numbers are actually lower. I believe this is because the program uses a linear relationship, and 79 is where the two lines intersect.

Originally Posted by chucklestheclown

Close enough! Thanks for the info, that's the only true method I've seen yet. Keeneland has a very complicated excel document on poly racing. Has anyone here looked at it?

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Why would you want to convert syn figures to dirt? Wouldn't that be meaningless? You wouldn't do the same for turf figures...

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Can be found at CM Oreo's site pacefigures.com

The converter basically accounts for the value of a beaten length being more significant on synthetic tracks. Using it for Derby preps for example...

Pioneer of the Nile's '09 Beyers of 95, 90, and 96 become 100, 93, and 101.

Papa Clem's 94 in the San Felipe becomes a 99

Chocolate Candy's last two numbers of 91 and 94 become 95 and 99

General Quarters 95 in the Blue Grass becomes a 100

I Want Revenge's 92 in the Bob Lewis becomes a 96.

The Pampelmousse's 103 in the Sham stakes becomes a 111


Anyone who bets on races at cheaper tracks knows that synthetic track numbers are greatly inflated when slow horses are involved. The opposite of what happens with the fastest horses. A 45 on synthetic is equal to only a 33 dirt.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The field is too bunched at the end of synthetic races to consistently produce big figures like you see on the dirt so it essentially brings bad horses up and good horses down on the figures. By adjusting for that on the assumption that a beaten length on synthetic is more significant than a beaten length on dirt you can at least get some sort of idea as to whether the synthetic horses would be fast enough to compete if they could replicate their synthetic performance on the dirt. From what the numbers at the start of the thread show, only The Pamplemousse was fast enough so the other synthetic horses will have to actually improve on the dirt to contend.