Derby Trail Forums - 'Rags' with hairline fracture; '08 possible

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Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'll tell u what I think and I'll wait for u to jump all over it but I think part of it is the effort it takes to win the race vs. being an also ran in the race. Take for example the Arc de Triomphe. Most people would be surprised to learn that no Arc winner has ever come over and won the BC Turf. Realizing that only four have tried it (Dancing Brave, Trempolino, Saumarez and Subotica) but it's still never been done. I believe that had one or more of those four won it, trainers wouldn't have stopped even trying. At the same time that they aren't able to complete the double, there have been several Arc also rans (High Chaparral twice, Daylami, In the Wings, Pilsudski, Shirocco) that have found Turf success. Why is that? I believe that the effort it takes to win some of these grueling test like the Arc and the Belmont, coming at the end of campaigns, takes a huge toll and leave horses more vulnerable to injuries.

U may say that the horses coming out of the Belmont may only need a rest. U are probably right. U've probably forgotten more about horse racing than I'll ever learn. But what I do know is that in the past seven years, we've gotten a combined total of six races and three wins post Belmont from the seven winners of the race in the remainder of their 3yo seasons. That's just not good. If it's not the Belmont, something is obviously going wrong these days.

well, you have bad belmont winners such as jazil, you have horses such as birdstone who go on to win other big races, and retire to make more money in the shed. you have afleet alex, who just wasn't given the time to race again--his injury was relatively minor, but they tried to rush him back too soon. smarty wasn't injured in the belmont, his issues were described as chronic, and once again the shed beckoned. more to it then just to say this horse did this, and never ran again. why didn't he run again? or why didn't he win again? maybe a bad winner who lucked out by not having the top 3 yo's run?
also, you need to consider a horse past three (IF he makes it that far). there are plenty of reasons why a horse may need an extended break, whether from a grueling spring, or from any number of issues. citation missed his entire four year old season for example. seattle slew didn't run again after his dismal swaps stakes. i doubt the belmont was the cause, but due to the combined efforts of his spring campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Though I disagree about your Belmont Stakes analysis as the race that kills off top horses, I wondered the same thing about the attendance.

It was a funny weather day on Long Island on Saturday. It was drizzling and overcast until about 1:00 p.m., at which time the sun came out and was out for the remainder of the day. The temperature was comfortable.

Still, though, I'd like to hear from those in the audience who claimed that top horses would bring people out to the races and keep them coming -- Funny Cide, Smarty Jones were examples used last month -- to explain the continued lack of on-track support at Belmont Park.

c'mon, you know everyone was anxiously awaiting the big college matchup between michigan and notre dame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Both of whom performed better than The Green Monkey!

no, i'd have to say the monkey did better than notre dame, at least he hit the board!!!

damn, just how bad IS notre dame??

Trip notes say Smarty: "...drifted out when struck left handed with the whip in upper stretch and again nearing the eight pole..."

Maybe you can call DRF or whomever and tell them that didnt happen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

If I didn't have the best seats in the house to see my beloved Mets lose another @#($*@#ing game I'd have been there. September Saturdays are tough, there's a lot of competition for entertainment dollar/time. Often when I suggest the track I get a "but I gotta watch football", until I make it clear they have the games on at the track. Perhaps NYRA should advertise/promote that a bit.

Those are the drf trip notes.

Yeah, I wasnt sure whether DRF or BRIS does them because I know there are at least two different charts made so maybe the notes are shared or maybe they have different.

I actually did ask Stewart Elliot about the race months after the hoopla died. I was concerned about the way Smarty took the turn but he said that he usually was somewhat wide but it did concern about the horse bearing out in the lane. Which is kinda why I got confused about how wide Smarty was or what was it exactly. Elliot said the horse really didnt slow down till right at the end, but like the other guy said they can bear out for lots of reasons.

If you get a chance to ask Elliot or Servis they will likely tell you that this horse was never the same after Belmont. Elliot was approachable back then but maybe they get jaded after people ask them the same stuff..

At some point the "BS meter" might get old, but we are a long way from that at this point.
It makes me laugh every time I see it....especially when it is used as appropriately as it was in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

At some point the "BS meter" might get old, but we are a long way from that at this point.
It makes me laugh every time I see it....especially when it is used as appropriately as it was in this case.

And to think Elliot and Servis were over for dinner tonight and I forgot to ask them as suggested.

i think the two baseball games (mets and yanks) helped keep fans away. They were big games also. Combine that with college football. I still think there should have been a lot more people at the track though! It felt so empty.

Oh yeah, Go Phillies!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

And to think Elliot and Servis were over for dinner tonight and I forgot to ask them as suggested.

I was taking Smarty himself out for our usual daily gallop today, and I asked him about it but it doesn't seem like he enjoys talking about that race.
I guess even he is sick of talking about the '04 Belmont.

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

yeah, well birdstone told me you can never believe smarty--that he was named 'smarty' for a reason! don't believe me? go ask birdstone yourself! besides, i verified it with ol' marylou, she says birdstone is honest as the day is long. but his mama--whew, that gal makes up stories (marylous' words, not mine!).

i hate to speak for anybody, especially andy, but i think his point was that it's the entire triple crown campaign, preps included, that will wear a horse out. after making it all the way to the belmont, a 3yo will most likely need a breather, perhaps for a very extended period of time. and if that colt happened to be running for 5mil, he may have gone in the belmont when he really shouldn't have. definitely monarchos should not have run, and many would say funny cide could have used a break after the preakness. if they were in a different order, say kd,b,p, we'd have a thread that says the preakness has done it again.

i still think it's the derby. look what it did to barbaro.

It is the focus on the Derby rather than on the whole Triple Crown that is causing the problems. Everyone is campaigning their horse to be at their best come Derby Day and not giving any thought to having them prepared to go on to the Preakness and the Belmont. Two years in a row we had horses skip a March prep (Closing Argument and Barbaro) which lead to them running their best race in the Derby and then suffering a career ending injury in the Preakness. Barbaro had never even run on less than five weeks rest before the Preakness. How can you condition a horse to run on 5-8 weeks rest and then suddenly expect them to run back in two weeks off the longest and most demanding race of their life or to run three times in five weeks? I think the trainers need to take the focus off just having a fresh horse for the Derby and instead on having a horse prepared for the Triple Crown or we will just keep on seeing more horses wiped out by the Triple Crown.