bob, where did you get this info?

No where special....a program from Arlington last Thursday..Page 17

aww, that's what I thought.
I was hoping to get the same info for other tracks, to compare.

I'd also like to compare it to AP's dirt numbers same time last year. I'm sure they differ, but maybe not as much as other track's dirt to poly conversions, based on what I've been reading about Delmar and saw at Keeneland

Riot,after a quick look at the BRIS summary reports for DMR through July 30, races at 5.5,6.0, and 6.5 furlongs show 65%-70% of the winners being designated as running style E or EP. The two turn races show almost the opposite trend, with P and S horses winning the majority of the races.These numbers for poly only, no turf.

maybe you can find it somewhere on the racing web sites...

Since Zayat and Baffert likes speed horses so much, maybe they should move to Charles Town and Mountaineer..:D

or Monmouth

If you cant adjust to change in today's world, get out. I understand the frustration, but if handle is up... something is working. And I just cant believe the stuff plays totally randomly.

We have a bunch of horses bred for speed and they cost money. That would make me mad if I had invested and spent time in selecting. ANd of course they lost to a so called crappy horse with endurance. Well maybe that horse is not crappy anymore.
We have horses whose worth in the shed might change drastically if more tracks go to artificial. That would make me mad as a breeder.

We have the TC races on dirt, and major tracks in NY and other places still doing dirt... that might get me upset as a handicapper of multiple tracks whose circuits overlap with artificial. Or a long time handicapper whose favorite track just changed surfaces. Make the necessary adjustments. If it is really a crapshoot, stop betting.

But what are you going to do, just cry about it, or adjust. Determining if this is a temporary trend, or a long term thing that will spread to all major tracks including eventually TC races and the BC, is very interesting for the future.

Embrace the change and the uncertanties, or fight the changes to the death because you know they will ruin your all your notions, planning, your sport, your life. What happened to the poor guys that invented Beta tapes... Quit and cry, or keep pace with change.
People on here are using the internet. There are still people who wont get on it, hate it.

so is it just the type of poly track that causes this? monmouth favors speed, but monmouth is dirt...

is speed really dying at del mar, or just zayats speed horses? what are the #'s for del mar (if anyone can look in their program, if they list %'s like arlington does?). is cushion biased at all? does it depend on sun, cloudy? rain, dry?
perception is one thing, reality another. is it a reality that only closers win? if so, where do speedsters go? or do they just rest til hollywood? but is hollywood playing fair?

and what about santa anita, they're cushion right?


sires are known for being milers, turfers, etc--are there any known sires of early speedsters? if so, what does it mean for them, and their owners?

Try this link

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/edito...cle.cgi?id=318

in the left section of that page, go to the "At A Glance" tab and pick your track. Hope this is what you were looking for....

I was at Del Mar last week, and couldn't believe what that crap looks like up close. It reminded me of the inside of a used vacuum bag.

Anyway, part of the problem when I was there was the quality of racing (Saturday's card was full of low-level claiming races..I could have stayed in MN and watched those at Canterbury). But from what I saw, if you didn't get out of the gate well you were toast. Deep closers had no chance. It was all stalkers and horses coming from just off the pace.

Del Mar is gorgeous, but the racing was mediocre while I was there. The polytrack certainly didn't help.

yet somehow the polytrack gets blamed for this?
its the same Del Mar cards as any year. the daily fare is just sorta average for the reasons you mentioned.

yes it's exactly what I was looking for, thanks

through 8/4

Saratoga dirt;
fav win%, fav itm%, ave win payout, %wire sprints, %wire routes
26%, 61%, $6.38, 17%, 25%

DelMar poly;
33%, 66%, $6.39, 30%, 5%


So far we've heard that at Del Mar because of the polytrack it's totally random, you can't make any sense of the outcomes. Like its some topsy turvy world where you can't apply any rules that handicappers normally would use. Well it would seem that somebody is clued in because so far looking at favorites it is more predictable than Saratoga.

Notice also that the statements that people make about speed not holding up well only applies to routes. at sprint distances speed is doing much better than at Saratoga.

The most unfair tracks are the ones where these horses are breaking down the most.It's not fair to have Baffert's 2 year old stakes horses having their lives ended at Del Mar in August or September.Guys like Baffert and Zayat are responsible for f'n up this breed to begin with.If these damn speed addicts aren't happy,then it's better for the breed (in the long run.) Things happen for a reason,and that's true of the existence of artificial track racing in California.Out here,there was no choice but to do it.Not enough horses could fill the races written.Simple as that.Horses could not stay sound enough on our dirt tracks.The track at Del Mar last year wasn't concrete at all,but the horses were breaking down over that surface too.If less horses die,and less jockeys get hurt (on artificial,) then that's the type of surface to be using.Those who feel otherwise have got some pretty crappy motives involved.If you have a dirt track that's as safe(and horses can stay sound on) then great.We are all a little too tolerant of the word "euthanized."

And if your horse doesn't like turf or artificial,then that horse needs to live out his life in peace.However,those genes need to start being excluded from this breed.Keep doing that,and you'll have a great thoroughbred breed.