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-   -   Most disappointing Sires (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10593)

paisjpq 03-08-2007 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linny
He had El Condor Pasa and Lemon Drop Kid early in his career, but (at least in the US) has not seemed to consistently sire high quality. He still sells well but I would have expected him to have sired more multiple GSW's and more candidates for year end honors over the years. being by Mr P, I'd have expected more dirt success.
I guess I'd say he's not a failure, but he hasn't lived up to my expectations.

BTW, how do you define failure? If a horse who is only moderately bred is a top racehorse but doesn't sire much (think Skip Away, Tiznow, Silver Charm etc) is he a failure? In most cases like those, breeders really don't expect that much anyhow. To me a failure is one with the pedigree, race record and conformation who just don't sire anything of note. Citation is a classic example, though history did prove Bull Lea to be a terrible sire of sires. Nashua didn't sire much either, in terms of top class colts but his fillies were great producers. Surely breeders expected more of him. By this standeard Coronado's Quest and Dayjur (both champs, well bred and built) jump to mind. They were well supported with good mares and stood at top farms.
I get what you mean now...I misread your post as you didn't think his first few crops were that good and i thought perhaps you had him mixed up with king cugat...my mistake:o

FairPlay 03-08-2007 11:13 AM
Here is a list of all of the HOY's for the 1990's:

1990 - Criminal Type
1991 - Black Tie Affair
1992 - A.P. Indy
1993 - Kotashaan
1994 - Holy Bull
1995 - Cigar
1996 - Cigar
1997 - Favorite Trick
1998 - Skip Away
1999 - Charismatic

Only A.P. Indy has been fantastic. Holy Bull has been serviceable as a sire, but surely hasn't replicated himself. Cigar is infertile and the rest didn't do anything in the shed as of yet (Criminal Type and Favorite Trick are now deceased).

slotdirt 03-08-2007 11:24 AM
BTA had Formal Gold. Formal Gold was a god-dang good racehorse.

Linny 03-08-2007 11:33 AM
In all honesty, AP Indy was the only one of those HOY's who had a "stallion's pedigree." Most of those horses did just about what was expected in the stud. Of the list, I'd call Favorite Trick a failure. With his speed and early maturity, I'd have expected him to be a top Juvie sire.
It's not fair to count infertile or subfertile stallions as failures as sires any more than it would be to do so for a gelding. Lure was subfertile and though he got some nice offspring, he was rarely bred to good mares because most breeders don't want to risk a productive year from a top mare on a stallion who is unlikely to get her in foal.

Seattleallstar 03-08-2007 11:56 AM
da BId
alysheba

and in his last years Deputy Minister

keep in mind sres like Storm Cat, AP Indy, and MR P were always mated to the best broodmares in the world so of course they had more of a chance to produce superstars.

Distored Humor, Awesome Again gets my vote as the two best studs in the past 5 years.

Bold Reasoning 03-08-2007 12:35 PM
Arazi...totally mismanaged. Does anyone even know where this poor guy is?

paisjpq 03-08-2007 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattleallstar
da BId
alysheba

and in his last years Deputy Minister

keep in mind sres like Storm Cat, AP Indy, and MR P were always mated to the best broodmares in the world so of course they had more of a chance to produce superstars.

Distored Humor, Awesome Again gets my vote as the two best studs in the past 5 years.
those two have been successful but remember they are owned by 2 of the largest farms in the Bluegrass and therefore are supported by many of the farm's best mares....which goes a long way in making them the good sires they have become...Just like AP indy and SC;)

Cannon Shell 03-08-2007 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisjpq
those two have been successful but remember they are owned by 2 of the largest farms in the Bluegrass and therefore are supported by many of the farm's best mares....which goes a long way in making them the good sires they have become...Just like AP indy and SC;)
I dont think that Distored Humor got a great book the first few years. He really overachieved and I don't know anyone who thought that he would be this good. My friend did buy a share and has cashed in for a LARGE profit.

paisjpq 03-08-2007 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I dont think that Distored Humor got a great book the first few years. He really overachieved and I don't know anyone who thought that he would be this good. My friend did buy a share and has cashed in for a LARGE profit.
frankly I am still having a hard time with how good he is...
I don't know what his book was...but I have to believe that the farm must have sent him some good ones to get him going...but I hear what you are saying.

Cannon Shell 03-08-2007 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisjpq
frankly I am still having a hard time with how good he is...
I don't know what his book was...but I have to believe that the farm must have sent him some good ones to get him going...but I hear what you are saying.
No one will admit this now but the thought was if he did not get off to a good start they would move him quickly to a regional market. Of course he may have been a way better racehorse .....

alysheba4 03-08-2007 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
I dont think that Distored Humor got a great book the first few years. He really overachieved and I don't know anyone who thought that he would be this good. My friend did buy a share and has cashed in for a LARGE profit.
........does your friend live in calabasas ca.;)

Cannon Shell 03-08-2007 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alysheba4
........does your friend live in calabasas ca.;)
No. Lexington,KY.

avance2000 03-08-2007 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmont22
Secretariat
yeah what a failure. i mean the best two sires that his mares have produced is Storm Cat and AP Indy. who ever heard of those two?

slotdirt 03-08-2007 03:41 PM
Also Gone West, and several others. Perfect Soul is another.

Pedigree Ann 03-08-2007 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
Cajun, for the kind of horse he was, he was a disappointment...And there is no bigger fan of the Bid than me.

Affirmed wasn't the sire Alydar was either and part of that is my belief that Affirmed was a bit "hopped up" for his races.
That is so bogus of a reason. Storm Cat and Mr. Prospector were neither of them the best of their generation; neither was a champion at any point of their careers. Storm Cat's contemporaries Tasso, Broad Brush, Ferdinand, and Personal Flag all accomplished more on the racetrack than he did. Mr. P was a very minor member of the same generation as Secretariat, Sham, and Forego. The best runners quite often don't make the best sires.

Pedigree Ann 03-08-2007 03:47 PM
Lure was not very fertile - sired a very few foals; more than Precisionist, who got I think 4 foals total, but not great gobs of them. One of his sons, Orpen, was a G1 winner in France and is a good stallion. Once it was clear he wasn't going to sire 100 foals a year, he was shipped off to (?) Ireland.

Pedigree Ann 03-08-2007 03:51 PM
[quote=FairPlay]Here is a list of all of the HOY's for the 1990's:

1993 - Kotashaan
[quote]

Kotashaan was exported to Japan as soon as his North American racing career was over. Never had any runners in the US. Did you check the sires lists in Japan to see how he did?

slotdirt 03-08-2007 04:09 PM
There are about 1,000 horses out there who accomplished more on the track than did Storm Cat.

satan's twin 03-08-2007 04:36 PM
Most disappointing sires...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Yeah....his progeny is like Murder's Row around here.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/shoulda+pulledout
I should have swallowed the last half of the can Diet Coke I was drinking before I clicked on your link. Most of it projected out through my nose onto the laptop screen when I started having a seizure from laughing so hard.

ArlJim78 03-08-2007 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by satan's twin
I should have swallowed the last half of the can Diet Coke I was drinking before I clicked on your link. Most of it projected out through my nose onto the laptop screen when I started having a seizure from laughing so hard.
That link caused many drinks to spill.


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