Just because someone doesn't start a zillion horses doesn't mean he's not a top trainer.

Maybe he has chosen to have a smaller stable than in prior years.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can train Anromedas Hero to earnngs of $800,000+ doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame; he probably deserves to have his own wing.

Zito had 3 graded stakes winners and trainers that had more than him were: Pletcher, Frankel, Mott, R.Mandella, Biancone, McLaughlin, Matz, Canani, ONeill, Clement, bin Surroor, Baffert, and Tagg.
He doesnt have the stable size of Pletcher and doesnt have a stable on the West Coast, doesnt receive horses from the Sheiks, and two of his top clients (Live Oak-distributes their horses amongst 4-5 trainers and LaPenta-he buys yearlings for him and the pinhook them at the 2yo sales, keeping the ones that dont meet their reserve (on a side note they've done very well with this plan)) Thus he's doing pretty well in his spot, considering he's in the top 13 for graded stakes winners.

:D Beautiful.

The 16 million dollar bust? I see turf in his future.

Good news guys!

I just got back from lunch and picked up a "I'm sorry your career is slipping away" card for Zito....would anyone else like to sign it?

I think we need to make a movie about is. It would be the most over-hyped movie ever--sort of like Zito's career.

I can't bash Zito, because he is who he is, but he has mishandled Sun King's career. This horse ran the two best races of his life in a 7F sprint and the Met Mile. So what does Nick do? Run him in the Classic at a mile and a 1/4.

What about his Whitney?

Considering the horse had only lost by a nose at 9 furlongs to the horse that won the Classic it is tough to say he shouldn't have been there.

True true. He did have that outside post on the rail friendly Breeder's Classic.

What was he to do? Lay him off for a year and bring him back in the '07 BC Mile and 70yards?

I have to agree with you. Street Sense is much better than Private Vow ever was.

Haskins list is pretty good. I agree with you. Hard to argue with his list. Makes sense now, but I am sure it will change come April. And I think people have a right to bash Zito. Take a couple of years out of his career and he is a avg trainer at best.

Yeah, if by "couple" you mean those like 10 or 12 years where he was training Bird Town, Birdstone, Go for Gin, Louis Quatorze, Strike the Gold, Thirty Six Red, Bellamy Road, Sun King, Albert the Great and many others, he really was average.

Bellamy Road and Sun King--are you serious. Take 1991 to 1996 out and you have a very avg trainer with an occassional good horse.

Pick any of his down years and his career is still avg. Face it, the man is a low life scum who is given more credit than he deserves--just my opinion of the so called man.

The internet works well for you I see.

I would tell that to his face and have many of times.

Before you were sounding trollish or attention seeking.

Now you just sound stupid.

Guy's horses have earned nearly $100 Million and he's in the Hall of Fame.

Won every TC race and, of course, the last two runnings of the FW Hooper (no mean feat!).

Is it three consecutive Hooper's with Pies Prospect?

How do you define nearly $100mm. From my research he is about $28mm from $100mm. That means he needs to train another 7 years before he reaches the 100mm mark.

Derby - 2-19
Preakness - 1-16
Belmonmt - 1 - 13

So 4 for 48 is not too bad but nothing to really get all excited about.

*NOTE: I believe these numbers are correct. If they, aren't please forgive me and give me the correct numbers.

You're the only one getting excited.

I'm going to need to consult with my psychic advisor before any further replies to you.

B....do you use Dionne Warwick too??!!:eek:

No way.

I use Mystic Zelda.

http://www.helpself.com/zelda1.htm?

"Wouldn't you like to have the same physical/sexual vigor and vitality you had 10-20 years ago?"

Sh*t....I'd settle for the same sexual vigor I had 2 years ago:o

That's strong!!

Knocking Zito is laughable. Great thread.

No, no, no, no!!! What in the hell is going on with this?

so hes won the all of the tc races,,and the most coveted derby 2 times....yes he a total bust..lol..:D

having a personal issue with someone is one thing, or not 'liking' them...but don't start writing fiction because of a FEELING. and they say women get emotional....

i mean, as a lifelong washington redskins fan, i automatically hated tom landry with all the passion of a youth. but the guy was a hell of a coach. to suggest otherwise would be laughable.

You fail to realize that could have easily been an owners decision. Do you think Pletcher actually wanted to Keyed Entry in the Derby? um no

he should hang his head in shame...:rolleyes:

Winnings: 22 Starts: 6 - 4 - 5, $1,992,978

2004: 3rd BC Juvenile(G1,8.5F), Champagne S.(G1,8.5F)
2005: 1st Pennsylvania Derby(G2,9F), Tampa Bay Derby(G3,8.5F), Leonard Richards S.(G3,8.5F), 2nd Haskell H.(G1,9F), 3rd Jockey Club Gold Cup(G1,10F)

2006: 1st Commonwealth BCS.(G2,7F), 2nd Whitney H.(G1,9F), Metropolitan H.(G1,8F), Albert the Great S.(Bel,8.5F), 3rd Woodward S.(G1,9F)

Without a doubt the owners have a lot of say. Any wonder why Sun King is not standing stud right now? Tracy Farmer loves to watch that horse run, so do I.

Nice of Haskin to have 11 horses in his top 10.....and to include only 55 different horses in that write up. It must have painful to leave Tiago out.


In my opinion, you have six viable contenders as of right now. The top four of which are real elite contenders---you have a decent gap back to the 5th and 6th ranked contenders....and I believe you take a big step back after those two horses. You also have two sensationally talented horses, who are not viable contenders because they are lightly raced and wintering in Dubai. One of which (Day Pass) would also be quite doubtful to see out 10 furlongs against top company.

* My Elite 4 include:

Any Given Saturday, Nobiz Like Shobiz, Street Sense, and Tiz Wonderful.

* My two viable contenders who must further develop:

Great Hunter and Hard Spun.

* The two potential stars who I don't view as viable Derby candidates right now:

Day Pass and Minefield.

My number one pick is the green tortoise!!

if rags to riches were a male, i'd give him a pretty big look, but she isn't, so i wont.

exhale did look really spectacular as well, and looked like he could run alot longer with no problem.

i think nobiz is overrated, but has a look. hard spun has a big look to me as well.

there is another horse that nobody mentions, but the name escapes me right now.

You just like her because she's an A.P. Indy half sibling to the immortal Jazil.

the ap indy part, yeah, that helps. you havent seen her win yet though, have you? her debut was pretty nice too, considering her pedigree and the distance (5.5 in june).

the other 3yo i like some is adore the gold. i havent heard what the plans are for him though.

No Circular Quay?