I think you will see us getting a lot of Euro horses,and they will try both surfaces.They have options over here now.There are a lot of people with good(not great)turf horses in Europe,and you can be sure they will be wondering if they can take to the cushion track like Foxysox did.

I mean the synthetic stuff.

How can you say for certain that St Stephen can't run on dirt?? he's run TWICE on it (hitting the board once), and not since he was 2, and he's a full brother to a dirt champion. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say he can't run on dirt.

Saint Stephen will remain....all he lost he shall regain.

"Seashore washed by the suds and foam,
Been here so long he's got to calling it home."

But what would be the answer to the answer man?

If you felt as good as these C. Clement horses,you could run on broken glass.

He's a damn good trainer. Always wins at 20%, and I can't think of a single time he's been implicated (or even been suspected) for any funny business.

I'm confused, did this dude suggest Cristophe is a cheater?

That's funny. Sad....but funny. We got plenty of cheaters in NY but he isn't one of them.

Hay, oats, and water....

Hmmm... rereading it, it's somewhat ambiguous. Scudsbrother, care to qualify?

They also never said that tracks had to do serious renovations to the surface -- like scraping the top 3 inches (March 2006) and spending even more money revising the top layer with spandex and cable coverings like TP did this summer.

And "Marty" as you call him clearly lied when he said the surface was "low kickback".

If you get information from Keeneland and Martin "Marty" Collins :rolleyes: you'll never get the complete truth. They are in the business to sell Poly pure and simple.

Very well said. Poly was originally sold as "saving $500,000 in yearly maintenance costs". Now it's sold as saving horses. The jury is still out on that.

It was also sold as having a 10 year lifespan. That may be true on gallops or training tracks but highly doubtful for a racetrack.

Turfway had an extremely mild winter in '05 and '06. They wouldn't have had to cancel days even if they kept the dirt surface -- yet they ignore that fact and say it was the poly that saved racing days. Total misinformation. They also ignore the fact that the weather (also FG being closed) helped handle.

We'll see this season how the poly reacts to tough weather. So far it doesn't look good.

And they didn't factor in the cost of scraping it in March and also re-doing the entire track over the summer. Supposedly Martin Collins LLC covered that cost. TP and Martin Collins LLC are affiliated companies -- through Keeneland.

If you would research, everyone would know. The nigerians have a regestered toxic dump site for old used tires,condoms and tennis shoes{they actually get paid to accept these items]. They have set up a recycling process and selling it as ,poly,cushion orwhatever you want to call it and ripping the hated US.

When u just think of one fact, u realize it's all a sham. Turfway put it in to save racing dates and make more money. Period. It had NOTHING to do with safety for the horses. That they try to put it off as they were doing something in the interest of horse safety is what I really hate. This was all about business.

The kickback is nothing at Turfway. I will admit that it looks bad on TV. However, I was at Turfway on Sunday and the kickback is really nothing. In fact, it is less severe than dirt. Ask any jock, the kickback (which there is) is like snow hitting you and then falling off. It isnt like pelts of dirt hitting you. That is the difference in kickback.

The kickback at Turfway is absolutely brutal.

I didnt find it brutal at all. I certainly think it could be better. However, I didnt think it was all that bad and I was right at the rail.

Were you riding? :eek:

were you drinking?

No, but the jocks we went to dinner with later that night said that the kickback isnt bad at all. They just said that is just falls off and you cant tell when it hits you. Now all of them say that it takes getting used to because horse and jock are used to getting pelted with the dirt. A few of the jocks say that it takes a few moments for the horse to realize that the kickback doesnt hurt.

The kickback the last 3 days at Woodbine was unbelievable. The horse
that were winning were going wire to wire or coming on the far outside an avoiding it. But one are two won from the inside.

Maybe the jocks you went to dinner with were on the lead. The kickback is an obvious problem at both tracks

Well I am sure that the jocks we were with dont ride every race on the lead.

And I am sure that the jocks aren't going to sit there and trash the stuff to your face, either.

who were they

Oh, I am sure they would. I have been friends with them for about 15 years now. In fact, I am related to one.

Troilo, Butler, Teator. Troilo is the one I have known for about 15 years.

You know Euro, I may not agree with what people say sometimes, but at least they aren't complete bull****ters.
You 1) Live in Cincy, now you live in Indiana, which is it?
2) You say you arent an employee or have no vested interest in poly or Turfway yet you cited numbers in maintenance costs that aren't public, just as you did when you told of us Turfways opening day handle when it wasnt released to the public.

Nothing you say has any validity to me. You've made so many statements that contradict previous ones that how could they?

Wasn't Troilo an an outstanding ice hockey player back
in his high school days in Philly at Strawberry Mansion High School

If your not careful he may turn Phil Teator against you. Or...God forbid....Billy Triollo.

Ah Phil!! A proud graduate of Ichabod Crane High School, a native of Valatie, NY.
I'm so tired of the bull****ters, I really am.
At least some of the trolls here are mean and trolls, but seem truthful.
Euro has made at least 100 contradictory statements and repeatedly denies connections to poly and Turfway, Keeneland, etc.
Yet hes been caught giving out handle numbers that we called on and were told were NOT public yet, and now hes got maintenace costs down to the percent.
Look, noone is gonna be crazy enough to try and discertain that non public info just to post it on a meesage board.
Not everything everyone says is gonna be truthful on a message board, but like to think that most folks here are telling the truth and I think most folks are, whether I agree with what they say or I don't.
But when a guy tells us he lives in different places, then hes got numbers on a place that aren't public, then hes outto dinner with three jocks, and hes calling Martin Collins "Marty" as if he knows him. Well I mean, please, spare me the bull****. Enough already.

the 5 rattles to you for ..actions in the battle of poly dec 11 2007..
col btw actions on this day were of the highest
traditions of the derby trail message board...

I have no idea who eurobounce is or where he lives, but you can live in Indiana and say you live in Cincy, it's suburbs stretch into Indiana. Maybe that's the confusion.

Valatie, NY? i've lived in this state my whole life and i had to look that one up :D

I most humbly accept.

I do what I can.

I think they are talking about the jock Phil, not you Philcski