you sure about that?
thought the mandate was just for SoCal tracks.
i think Bay Meadows, Golden Gate and the fair circuit are safe.
I hope I am right.


Repent

f*ck.
I read differently, but Im sure you are right.

well,
that means we need all the breakdowns and problems we can get btwn now and then.
might not make a difference, but it cant hurt.
I wish one of these tracks(mainly the 2 Magna tracks) would stand up and preserve the tradition that is dirt racing in America.

Im going to lmao when they decide to go back to regular dirt in 2009 after 2 years of that crap.
lot of wasted time and money.


Repent

thanks,
I went to the CHRB's website and read the press releases after you posted that about all CA tracks.

you were right.
any track running thoroughbreds for more than 4 consecutive weeks has to install some sort of synethic surface.
gave them 4 to choose from.
Hollypark obviously chose cushion.
I heard Del Mar chose the same, but Im not sure.
do you know?


Repent

Wow... I wouldn't wish death upon any horse to end a debate. Crazy shiat... :eek:

I generally really like reading Repent's replies, he can make me laugh at times, but man, Repent, you can't possibly really mean what you say, and if you really do mean it than you are not what we all are, whether we are gamblers, owners, breeders or just like the majority .... fans. There is no way you could be actually pulling for these beautiful animals to break down and die so you could prove a point. I think anyone who would wish this has to think of these horses as nothing more than numbered saddle cloths, and not the wonderful animals they are. :(

well,
part of the difference btwn me and a lot of you is that I have no appreciation for the actual horses themselves.
ppl talk about going to KY and visiting these past great racehorses and I have to tell you, all i can think about is how much of a waste of time that would be.

the closest I ever get to a horse is the paddock when they are saddling them at Lone Star.
and I only go down there to see if they are washed out or not.
its not like I have any desire to be close to an animal.

I truly believe we are in a crucial time for American racing.
I see this rubber polytrack crap going in at major racetracks and its like nobody gets it.
this threatens the very existence of one of our country's oldest sporting institutions-thoroughbred dirt racing.

dirt racing is what we do better than any country in the world.
others have turf.
so do we, but its not the primary aspect of our racing.
10 years from now, are we going to look around and claim to be the king of polytrack racing?
maybe we are going to be that, but who really gives a sh*t?
who want to be known as the country who breeds the best synthetic wax and rubber runners in the world?
its downright embarassing.

so Im sorry if my words offend some people.
i know that a lot of you are better ppl than I am.
and you care about these horses that we bet on.
but I dont.
I wish I could say that I hope everything goes well at Turfway, KEE, and Holypark.
but I dont.
I hope they fail.
I hope they fail quickly so we can stop all this nonsense about synthetic surfaces.



Repent

The only thing that I hate to admit about Repent's post is that he may have a point regarding the rush to polytrack surfaces in light of the sport's long North American history as a dirt-based sport.

For a long period of time, major league baseball stadium owners chose to install artificial grass in lieu of natural grass due to its durability and ease of maintenance and we now see how the number of artificial surfaces in baseball have dwindled to just a few. The key difference is that artificial surfaces in baseball proved to be dangerous to the players and exacerbated injuries rather than prevented them while the expectation with polytrack is that it will prevent injuries to the "players" - those horses who really don't have much influence on the surface over which they ride.

My concern about polytrack is that there should have been a long term pilot track where poly is used for 5-10 years to determine not just the number of breakdowns, but also to see whether the synthetic surface produces other ancillary health problems (lung issues in breathing for example) that actually could outnumber the value in lives saved from breakdown prevention. In other words, are there significant side effects to polytrack? I'd sure like to know before I see every dirt track in America disappear.

By the way, this has become a total hijacking of a post entitled "the lava man thread...."

easier said than done tho changing back to dirt....big investment laying down a poly surface. those who are considering it would do well to watch woodbine for a while, see how things go...turfway as well. they've had some issues there already. not something i would just jump on doing.
i think cali made a huge mistake mandating such a sweeping change.

i'm also surprised that i haven't seen any comments on the addition of toe grabs at woodbine. they hadn't been allowed, but will be this month, if it hasn't already happened.

Repent,

You should start betting on Nascar... more predictable than betting on horses. I don't understand how you can care about the future of horse racing if you don't care about the horses themselves... that makes no sense at all. Without the horses, there would be no racing...

I dont think repent "wants" to see any horses get hurt to prove his point and I think that some of you are taking his statement the wrong way. There are plenty of people out there that say they care about racing and are licking there chops everytime another horse breaks down and are giving high fives to each other. And those people are the ones that create polytrack. Our racing integrity is at stake here and there is one thing that we are great at and that is racing on the dirt. It will be a woeful time in the US when the Europeans come over here and run 1 2 3 in the Classic. Repent and I (hopefully he does) hope that something else can open up peoples eyes to this polycrap s*it and help save what we have spent over 100 years building, the best DIRT horses in the world.

"I wish I could say that I hope everything goes well at Turfway, KEE, and Holypark.
but I dont.
I hope they fail.
I hope they fail quickly so we can stop all this nonsense about synthetic surfaces."

I guess you can take that whatever way you want, but I'd rather the point be proven in a different way. JMO...

oh, and then there's this gem repent put further back in this thread:

'well,
that means we need all the breakdowns and problems we can get btwn now and then.'

kgar, i have been very pessimistic about poly, and hate to see everyone rush to change to it.
but please, don't try to defend repent. he's always been an outrageous poster. altho he said he'd keep it clean here, out of respect to steve, all his cursing and name calling belies his statement on that topic.

I just wrote this huge f*cking thread and it erased somehow and sent me to an administrator F8uckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Hilarious... LMFAO! :D

Im not trying to defend him I just hope in the hearts of every racing fan that they dont wish the worst for horses.
But I will tell you who does wish the worst for horses and that is the people who create poly. They sit by there TV's everyday watching racing. Not for the sport of it but hoping and praying to see another horse break down so they can line their pockets some more. These creeps stand to make millions off this crap and when it does fail and people finally wake up, they are the same people you will call to remove this junk. Millions more for them. This could be called the greatest scam of all time.
Im trying to take the best out of what hes saying and trying to twist it in the right dirsction for him. But it seems to me that it may take a couple of horses to break down in the process for people to open there eyes about this stuff. What happens when inept trainers and broken down horses start to pile into these tracks under false pretenses that they can run in this stuff and their horses wont break down. At least when putting a horse on the dirt track there is some accountability for trainers making sure their horse is sound. If a leg is gonna snap it will snap on poly just as well. I hope it doesnt go that far that a horse and a jockey has to die before this crap is removed.

Oh it was way longer then the one I just wrote plus my damn phone wont stop ringing here at work the whole time I trying to write it. And people are calling about nothing.

I know... God forbid that they expect us to work! :eek: J/K :D

the NERVE!

geez, i'll never get anything done today...

well, there are most of us...and then there are a few who dance to the beat of a different drummer. but good luck with the twisting! believe me, i've been 'bantering' with repent for years, i know how he can be. so really nothing he posts anymore surprises me.

It's always quiet around here during November and December... people are too busy shopping and spending their money on other things to worry about investing. :(

.......must......step......away...drop.the...mouse ....

quick, run for the door! lol

Lava Man reminds me of another favorite of mine, Slew O' Gold. He was an Eclipse winner twice, but he could not win outside of New York!:confused:

a lot of horses can't ship. but apparently those from the west coast are the only ones who get tons of grief about it.

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I thought that Lava Man looked great on the Works... oh well... I was wrong.

With that said, he has accomplished far more on the track than MANY horses and I sure as hell wouldn't be ashamed to have him in my barn.

Monmouth and Meadowlands are looking into a Tapeta surface. Does anyone think Lava Man would do well at Monmouth in the next BC if that comes to pass?

I'm going to say no... from what I've read on here, it appears that the surface isn't the issue with Lava... it's the part about getting on an airplane. I didn't realize he was a stall walker, etc... I guess everyone likes to be "home."

cajun, who's the horse in your avatar?

See the difference? Can't win out of New York = eclipse. Can't win out of Cal = grief.

How many times did he attempt to win out of NY? And I dont call a very close while murdered 3rd place in the BCC the same as your precious Lava Man getting beat a football field every time he leaves Cali.
face it thats an awful comparsion.

Maybe because the East encompasses a lot of different tracks, i.e. NY, KY and FL, whereas the West is just the same tired SOCAL horses all year long..

Was that supposed to be a joke? Are you trying to be funny? Cause if you werent you sure have me laughing!!!!
Meadowlands runs one short tbred meet and two long harness meets, which is where they make their money. Come on please ok? You want me to believe that the meadowlands is gonna install a synthetic surface and keep ripping it out and reinstalling a harness surface every time they switch meets?
Thats pretty funny!!!!

Ok, then replace Slew o'Gold with Sky Beauty. Or Groovy.

So are you saying that Lava deserves the eclipse award over Invasor?
LOL!!!