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-   -   Sheikh Mo and Bernardini (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5622)

oracle80 10-13-2006 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I have some land to sell you too. Where did you hear this anyway? I doubt they are going to comment on the track. With Henny Hughes and Bernardini running, both track records are in trouble. I can assure you some people in the KY breeding business would love to see Bernardini take down that track record.
And we care so much about those breeders because?????????

randallscott35 10-13-2006 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I have some land to sell you too. Where did you hear this anyway? I doubt they are going to comment on the track. With Henny Hughes and Bernardini running, both track records are in trouble. I can assure you some people in the KY breeding business would love to see Bernardini take down that track record.
Henny isn't breaking any records. Nor is Bernie. Why people think these records are suddenly going to fall is a mystery to me?.....Henny isn't winning to begin with.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
Henny isn't breaking any records. Nor is Bernie. Why people think these records are suddenly going to fall is a mystery to me?.....Henny isn't winning to begin with.
Henny and Bernardini are both going to win easily. Just like all of their races. I am curious who you think could beat Henny Hughes.

randallscott35 10-13-2006 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
Henny and Bernardini are both going to win easily. Just like all of their races. I am curious who you think could beat Henny Hughes.

My picks will be given before the Breeders Cup. Let's see the draw and a few other things. But Henny will not be on any of my tickets, Pick 3s, 4s, or other. Maybe underneath.

Bernie should probably win although I'm pulling against him b/c of the retirement issue.

Danzig 10-13-2006 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
Why do people care if they retire Bernardini or not. If you say it is selfish of them to retire the horse then aren't you being selfish for wanting the horse to race??? All of our stars are retired too early in my opinion. Smarty, Alex, Point Given, Ghostzapper etc etc. I know some had injuries, but with time off they could have come back to race. With the exceptions of Smarty and Alex, most of our stars are owned by people with big bucks so money isn't a problem but it is a factor when retiring a horse.

What I like to think is that most owners take the money they earned and put it back into the industry by buying more horses. I certainly think that the Sheikh puts just as much money into the sport than he takes out. So I have no problem with him when it comes to racing. What I don't like is that a couple of outfits have raised the price for horses and certain people are unable to compete. But this is part of life.

I would rather see the offspring of Bernardini run than Bernardini himself. Imagine the next 10 years of little Dini's running around. I am sure that he will be able to produce a couple of nice off-spring.

Good luck to Dini in the BCC. He deserves to be there and I hope he wins. He seems to be a fantastic horse and I hope we really get to see the horse all out on Nov 4th regardless of the margin of victory or defeat.
i don't think it's selfish to expect racehorses to race. after all, they only race a couple years. most have decades to stand at stud.
as for rich folks not needing money, rich people enjoy making another buck just like anyone else does. and the heck with little dinis....spectacular breeding doesn't guarantee he'll be a top sire. he could fail miserably at stud! and if he doesn't, and they are good, we won't get to watch them either as they'll be rushed off as well.

eurobounce 10-13-2006 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
Euro, what are they going to say? They we will soup the hell out of it. C'mon....Maybe it will be perfect, but they don't even admit the horse s.hit they pull on Derby Day which in 2001 cost horses their careers and even lives. Someone should've been arrested for that.
Well it is a known fact that Churchill loves to have the fastest surface possible on big days. But with horses coming from all over the world, they like to have the track as favorable to all horses as possible. The turf will also be grown out a little.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
And we care so much about those breeders because?????????
Breeding makes the business go around. Do some research and see how much money and jobs are tied to the breeding business. People gamble on horses, football, casinos, etc. Horses are unique though because there is a multi billion dollar business in breeding.

The tax revenues for the sales of horses are huge. The revenues from gambling are often nothing. Some groups are non-profits and contribute nothing. In fact, some of these non-profits cost the tax payer money.

eurobounce 10-13-2006 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I have some land to sell you too. Where did you hear this anyway? I doubt they are going to comment on the track. With Henny Hughes and Bernardini running, both track records are in trouble. I can assure you some people in the KY breeding business would love to see Bernardini take down that track record.
Track record wont have anything to do with the stud value of any of these horses. WINS WINS WINS is all that matters.

randallscott35 10-13-2006 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
Well it is a known fact that Churchill loves to have the fastest surface possible on big days. But with horses coming from all over the world, they like to have the track as favorable to all horses as possible. The turf will also be grown out a little.
Is that some sort of acceptance to the crap they pull on big days? Its criminal to do that. 2001 probably won't be seen again, when allowance fillies could break decade long records....The worst example of track management in the history of racing.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
Well it is a known fact that Churchill loves to have the fastest surface possible on big days. But with horses coming from all over the world, they like to have the track as favorable to all horses as possible. The turf will also be grown out a little.
Turf yes. Dirt, no. The dirt races are pretty much for american horses.

ateamstupid 10-13-2006 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
My picks will be given before the Breeders Cup. Let's see the draw and a few other things. But Henny will not be on any of my tickets, Pick 3s, 4s, or other. Maybe underneath.

Bernie should probably win although I'm pulling against him b/c of the retirement issue.
Bold.

I admire your courage, but I too, have to ask, who is going to beat him? This isn't exactly a monster-laden Sprint field we're looking at..

I mean, if he draws the 12-hole or something, then I could see trying to beat him, but I think he's just faster at six furlongs than any other horse right now. I don't remember the last time I saw the final furlong of The Vosburgh go in under :12.

oracle80 10-13-2006 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Bold.

I admire your courage, but I too, have to ask, who is going to beat him? This isn't exactly a monster-laden Sprint field we're looking at..

I mean, if he draws the 12-hole or something, then I could see trying to beat him, but I think he's just faster at six furlongs than any other horse right now. I don't remember the last time I saw the final furlong of The Vosburgh go in under :12.
Isn't that because they finally cut it to 6f this year Ateam? It used to be 7f and then 6 1/2, which makes that very hard to do.

ateamstupid 10-13-2006 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
Isn't that because they finally cut it to 6f this year Ateam? It used to be 7f and then 6 1/2, which makes that very hard to do.
Argh. I didn't just mean The Vosburgh.. Any six-furlong sprint. I don't remember the last time I've seen it, and he went through some solid fractions and still flew home.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
Track record wont have anything to do with the stud value of any of these horses. WINS WINS WINS is all that matters.
Track records don't. Two track records though do. The 10f at Churchill and the 12f and Belmont. You take down Secretariat's record in either and it is a marketers dream. Bernardini is likely to be $250K with a win. Taking down Secretariat's track record though could get them $300K. Not bad for a freshman. Being an AP Indy/Cara Rafaela doesn't hurt though. The best racehorse in decades combined with the best breeding out there is going to fill his book at any cost.

randallscott35 10-13-2006 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Bold.

I admire your courage, but I too, have to ask, who is going to beat him? This isn't exactly a monster-laden Sprint field we're looking at..

I mean, if he draws the 12-hole or something, then I could see trying to beat him, but I think he's just faster at six furlongs than any other horse right now. I don't remember the last time I saw the final furlong of The Vosburgh go in under :12.
I think that last effort was enormous and definitely the best sprint performance I have seen this year. I think he bounces off that, and the sprint is the one race where you can lose the race at the break....lots of variables, lots of reasons to play against him....It isn't courage, I take stands on races, like singling Pleasant Home last year in multirace wagers at 30-1. I wasn't trying to be a hero and that's a quick way to lose money. When I feel strongly about a race I have to play it a certain way.

eurobounce 10-13-2006 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
Isn't that because they finally cut it to 6f this year Ateam? It used to be 7f and then 6 1/2, which makes that very hard to do.
That made me laugh. But really, the sprint is always a wide open affair. And people dont forget this horse when you bet the sprint--HOUSEBUSTER. Remind yourself of that race before you go dumping tons of the sprint race. Man, I about cried when i saw HB break that day.

eurobounce 10-13-2006 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
Track records don't. Two track records though do. The 10f at Churchill and the 12f and Belmont. You take down Secretariat's record in either and it is a marketers dream. Bernardini is likely to be $250K with a win. Taking down Secretariat's track record though could get them $300K. Not bad for a freshman. Being an AP Indy/Cara Rafaela doesn't hurt though. The best racehorse in decades combined with the best breeding out there is going to fill his book at any cost.
You are crazy--first of all he wont break the track record and the track record wont increase his value by $50k.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
My picks will be given before the Breeders Cup. Let's see the draw and a few other things. But Henny will not be on any of my tickets, Pick 3s, 4s, or other. Maybe underneath.

Bernie should probably win although I'm pulling against him b/c of the retirement issue.
Nice save, but nobody is beating Henny Hughes. The only horse with a shot isn't going to show up.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurobounce
You are crazy--first of all he wont break the track record and the track record wont increase his value by $50k.
This track record will. He will be "better than Secretariat". There are a lot of people in this business that really don't care if the fee is even $100K higher. If they want to breed to the horse they will. This one is like AP Indy. A can't miss.

randallscott35 10-13-2006 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
Nice save, but nobody is beating Henny Hughes. The only horse with a shot isn't going to show up.
A bounce is a bounce. If he does, someone will step up and beat him. What did he run a -2, faster?

eurobounce 10-13-2006 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
This track record will. He will be "better than Secretariat". There are a lot of people in this business that really don't care if the fee is even $100K higher. If they want to breed to the horse they will. This one is like AP Indy. A can't miss.
Thanks for making my point--his stud fee could be $400k and people will breed to him. A track record at Churchill means nothing. A win is what matters.

Bold Brooklynite 10-13-2006 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
This track record will. He will be "better than Secretariat". There are a lot of people in this business that really don't care if the fee is even $100K higher. If they want to breed to the horse they will. This one is like AP Indy. A can't miss.
You really are a novice ... aren't you? And not shy about showing it either.

There never has been ... nor ever will be ... a racehorse who is a "can't miss" at stud. No one can predict which good racehorses will be good stallions ... and which won't ... including ... guess who? ... you.

But thanks for keeping us informed on how artless you still are.

Bold Brooklynite 10-13-2006 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
Is that more inside info? Thanks man, I would never have guessed that they would scrape a track on a big day down there, thanks a lot.
I just figured out who "georgewashington" is ...

... yup ... it's our old friend. This guy has had more names than a bunko artist ... and is just as full of bunk.

But hey ... he is quite lovable in his own sad way.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite
You really are a novice ... aren't you? And not shy about showing it either.

There never has been ... nor ever will be ... a racehorse who is a "can't miss" at stud. No one can predict which good racehorses will be good stallions ... and which won't ... including ... guess who? ... you.

But thanks for keeping us informed on how artless you still are.
I am sure you know much more about me than that side of the business. :)

The game is about risk management in the first two years. Bernardini with is pedigree, conformation, and race record makes him what people in the business term a can't miss. Perhaps more importantly, a horse with the perfect pedigree, conformation and race record attracts the best mares.

If you could, please give me the name of a horse with Bernardini's pedigree, conformation, and race record that was a failure. I would love for you to find me one. Heck, I would love for you to find me one that has ever existed.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Wow, I missed all of the fun today. Question is, bigger douche, GW or his bro Nostra. I'd say ding dong battle down to the wire. Maybe a photo finish, but I don't want the judges at Hoosier looking at it.
I don't know if he rubbed off on you or you rubbed off on him, but I have never read more comments from people that have no idea what they are talking about.

Coach Pants 10-13-2006 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I am sure you know much more about me than that side of the business. :)

The game is about risk management in the first two years. Bernardini with is pedigree, conformation, and race record makes him what people in the business term a can't miss. Perhaps more importantly, a horse with the perfect pedigree, conformation and race record attracts the best mares.

If you could, please give me the name of a horse with Bernardini's pedigree, conformation, and race record that was a failure. I would love for you to find me one. Heck, I would love for you to find me one that has ever existed.
What if he's gay like Cigar?

georgewashington 10-13-2006 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Right, well you just pulled ahead. Here's a question, why are you here then? There are a ton of other forums. I'm sure many would love to hear from you.
I post on 4 forums. Usually on Fridays, or before the triple crown races or breeders cup.

I actually like the board, but I think it is best when someone who really knows his stuff like Joel Cunningham is posting.

oracle80 10-13-2006 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I post on 4 forums. Usually on Fridays, or before the triple crown races or breeders cup.

I actually like the board, but I think it is best when someone who really knows his stuff like Joel Cunningham is posting.
I certainly have no idea what I'm talking about, thats for damn sure.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillow Pants
What if he's gay like Cigar?
I think you mean War Emblem, who is actually just shy. Cigar was infertile.

georgewashington 10-13-2006 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oracle80
I certainly have no idea what I'm talking about, thats for damn sure.
You don't seem to know much about breeding horses or pedigrees. If I was a gambler I would listen to you.

Joel's article on Darley was right one. When I got e-mailed the link I was pretty impressed.

Pedigree Ann is very good too. There is no breeding forum here, but I enjoy reading it when I visit Belmont.

oracle80 10-13-2006 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
You don't seem to know much about breeding horses or pedigrees. If I was a gambler I would listen to you.

Joel's article on Darley was right one. When I got e-mailed the link I was pretty impressed.

Pedigree Ann is very good too. There is no breeding forum here, but I enjoy reading it when I visit Belmont.

yeah, its real hard to see that Ap Indy is a good sire, I never knew that.

Coach Pants 10-13-2006 04:28 PM
Wow it's shocking that he's singing the praises of Joel. Whodathunkit? :rolleyes:

georgewashington 10-13-2006 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Ahh, now I see. Agenda time okay.
I have no agenda. He writes entire pieces not just posts. I like Steve Byk's writing too, but he doesn't post them. He puts them on the homepage.

Bold Reasoning 10-13-2006 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I am sure you know much more about me than that side of the business. :)

The game is about risk management in the first two years. Bernardini with is pedigree, conformation, and race record makes him what people in the business term a can't miss. Perhaps more importantly, a horse with the perfect pedigree, conformation and race record attracts the best mares.

If you could, please give me the name of a horse with Bernardini's pedigree, conformation, and race record that was a failure. I would love for you to find me one. Heck, I would love for you to find me one that has ever existed.
I think you are correct, but I hope we see Bernie next year. Did you see the tribute to Tempera at the Godolphin website after her passing? It brought me to tears.

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington

A few people I have spoken to think Bernardini is going to break Secretariat's track record too.
This board is getting better every day! First I had a guy telling me that he could spot "illegally enhanced" horses by looking in thier eyes. Now we have a supposedly informed poster saying that his informed friends are predicting track records!!!

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington

I guess George Washington, the founder of our country, having slaves was ok. How about Thomas Jefferson?

How many countries have slave owners that are on their money or have cities named after them?
We like to think that we as a species has become a little more civilized over the last 250 years

Cannon Shell 10-13-2006 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgewashington
I have never met the Sheikhs.


I am going to guess you listen to Rush Limbaugh and complain when gas prices get too high.

I love you people that like to complain about their culture, but then when it comes to knocking down the price of your gas you can look the other way. Spare me the hypocrisy.
So we should boycott gas? Or only buy "american gas"? How do you get around? a bike?


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