How does it relate to jobs requiring 4 years of college and state certification?

how many of those countries' schools go all year, not part year like us?

I don't know. I'm too depressed for the teachers in my family after that.

Teachers and autoworkers unions are almost purely political organiations now. They still fleece as much as possible but mainly to add more money to their own account.

Comparing the US to countries like Luxemborg is silly. When adjusted for GDP of course we will look worse.

The idea that Mexican teachers make more money than our teachers is funny. I had a guy working for me as a groom a few years ago from Mexico that was great at fixing stuff around the barn. I asked him what he did in Mexico. He said he worked as an electrician for the power company. I asked him why he was here since that job sounded like it should pay pretty well. He said he made about $125 a week there (which he thought was ok) but the real reason he quit was that sometimes when they were on the poles if too many people called to complain about power being off, the supervisors would turn the power back on. A guess a couple ofhis coworkers got zapped. He made around $450 a week here. So if skilled electricians were making $125 a week in an extremely dangerous job I'm doubting that Mexican teacjers are making out really well.

The idea that 45k as an entry level salary is not good in most area's of the country is laughable.

Uh if the unions prevail here how doesnt it kill all the jobs that the new factory would have added?

Promulgating the idea that unions are responsible for financially destroying this country is beyond absurd.

Boeing Dreamliner delays: years of bad management and outsourcing

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/...-goes-too-far/

Yeah, American companies should complain about evil American unions, and outsource like hell until the GOP can take over completely and remove "inhibitors to job creation": like minimum wage restrictions, child labor laws, having to pay overtime, and workplace safety rules, so it's "reasonable" to return jobs to the United States.

Of course, they'll never be able to remove those "inhibitors to job creation" until they bust the unions up and get them the hell out of the way so they can overturn 100 years of worker rights. How can we do that? Oh, yeah! Blame the unions for the financial disasters caused by Wall Street and large corporate selfish irresponsibility!

"The United States of America - Race To The Bottom, Embracing Third World Status"

You can only yell "fire" so many times,Riot!....but I kinda like that last line...

She is 100% correct on the last line. You have been outta the workplace FAR FAR too long. I still shake my head in disbelief knowing you are on SSI and seeing you 100% behind those that are all willing to take it away. :zz: I really hope they dont even as i write a fat check to cover my own disability insurance.

i think i misplaced a comma in what you quoted. i meant it to say you can't make a blanket statement, but in this case, obviously jobs would be killed. that the union is in the wrong.

The problem is that just being on the other side of an issue doesn't make your side right. The idea that all corporations are evil is as wrong as the idea that all unions are bad. But the huge multinational corps that everyone bitches about have to stay competitive in an ever increasingly competitive global market. Some of the other countries that people like Riot praise routinely break trade treaty language and fund private companies with gov't money which makes all those cushy benefits and vacationtime a lot easier for those foreign companies to dole out. Look at Airbus versus Boeing in a little more depth and you'll see what I am talking about. We still can't forget that the corporate tax rate in the US is the highest of the supposed 1st world countries despite all the hand wringing about certain companies supposedly paying no taxes.

Not every union is a bad one. Unions that cover workers in dangerous jobs are still relevant. But you have to have extremely rose tinted glasses to defend the routine practices of the nations teachers unions and some of the other completely politicalized unions. Acting as though you are knocking the teaching profession when you point out the lunacy of thier unions positions is like me taking offense as a horseman when people knock the TOC for raising the takeout. Silly.

The problem is that like every other situation nowdays there is a whole bunch of complex issues that most people just don't know about or understand...however the big labor unions really aren't that complicated. They believe in scorched earth policy and the furtherence of their own political clout. When those policies result in problems, just blame the rich guys, evil corporations and the GOP. It seems like Riot has adopted the same tactics but she adds in GOP governors and any GOP female politician as well.

Who said the country is financially destroyed?

are unions the ultimate evil? no. are there abuses, just like with every other business? absolutely.

thing is, a union is ultimately a business, just like any other. they seek to make money, turn a profit. in my opinion, they are akin to churches. they started with a good purpose, but they're only worried about the bottom line at this point.

union membership has been on the decline for years. in the last year or so, the majority of union membership is now from the public sector rather than private. they are kicking and clawing to remain a viable entity. but many of their ideas aren't so much a good thing for the employee, as a good thing for themselves.

we aren't in the condition we are in because of unions-but many corporations bottom lines have been affected by union practices over the years. the automakers are a perfect example. retirement packages and layoff procedures are like nothing found anywhere else. ultimately pensions became too big a burden, much like what the usps is now facing. or schools.

my husband is in a union, has been for close to 15 years-more for self-preservation than anything. sorry, that union is a joke. they gave up the right to strike years ago, which is really the only power a union has in its arsenal. it's as useful at this point as a gelding in a breeding shed. contract negotiations went swimmingly in both contract talks since koch purchased, with no reason to argue over any company offers. but to read about unions and viewpoints, you'd think it was so awful without them. certainly not in this case!

i don't know really that unions do much in a dangerous setting. with osha regs, state safety regs, the union doesn't provide much in that regard.

But you can make a blanket statement because most unions would rather kill non-union jobs if given the opportunity. Like politicians their own survival is more important to them than common good. Hey I understand why they are taking that position but it doesn't mean I agree with it or condone it.

Unions are one of the main reasons those groups are around and so many safety regulations were passed. Of course some regulations are getting to be overkill and unncessary but that is not the point here.

yeah, i think they would. but if they all wouldn't all the time, that's where i say you can't make a blanket statement...we all know how pesky saying all, or none, or always can be.
what i don't get is a situation like the teachers the other day(in wi, or mi?), who voted to keep their current scheme in place, rather than pay extra for their retirement-which mean some of their laid off fellow teachers would remain laid off. that can't be what the union wanted-laid off union members don't pay dues!
now, why do they want teachers to pay a portion of their retirement? because the pension system in place is becoming untenable, much like with the usps, uaw, etc, etc. another example of people going broke, when small changes can be made now, to avoid big problems later. the teachers were unwilling to do so, so the pain is felt by their former fellow teachers, who are now unemployed. way to take care of their union brothers.

that is true. which is why so many think that unions are so great now, because they served great purposes then.

Just like every other lobbying group in DC, right?

As opposed to big business who believe in a scoched earth policy vis a vis the US Economy and the jobs that fuel that economy when they ship jobs overseas to meet their short term goals of their Execs so their stock options are in the money and they can cash out now without any thought to the destruction they are wreaking on future generations. Lets give em a pass because by golly they need to be competitive in this Global Economy.

Who pays more than the United States, in straight unadjusted teachers salary after 15 years experience?

Countries with viable futures in Bold.

Luxemburg Yeah I know but..
Korea
Switzerland
Germany
Ireland
Japan
Scotland
England
Netherlands
Australia
United States

What should they do?
Unlike the Fed, they cannot bleed cash for all eternity.

Strong companies are also sending their work overseas in droves. And the hemoraging you are witnessing is hemoraging of money LEAVING the US Economy. Money that if spent on US employees will be pumped back into our economy 100%. Unfortunately you and I won't live long enough to see China and India overcome their cultural barriers to buy local goods and buy US Goods. But at least you will be happy that your favorite CEO makes a few hundred million by keeping his stock options above water FOR NOW.. You know the game musical chairs... Very few chairs remain.

The solution is there is none becuase those that can make the laws are bought by those profiting from the scheme. Check-Mate.

Things are good for me now and good for you probably but you would have to be a complete moron to not see that given what is happening we WILL be affected and certainly our children will be.

You are being fuked by Business, Republicans and Demotards but like most need only one group to blame so it is all the Demotards fault.

Not at all, I see exactly what is happening and sadly know how it all ends. I am fed by business big and small (mostly small), without it my clients have no jobs or cash to build. I know who is sticking it to us (the collective us, pretty much everyone) I do not toe any party line but identify more with a moderate republican (extinct?) than a moderate democrat (definitely extinct). I think it was a great marketing plan that got Obama elected and we are now paying the price for it. I am not in the top 1% but I am in the top 15% and rely on those above me for my work.

What you wrote is a bunch of hypebole and bluster.

A minute number of corporations are sending jobs overseas.

Thanks... I let the millions who have lost thier jobs know that.. Hopefully none of them had any dreams of owning a racehorse and needing a trainer.

Do you think those jobs are all overseas now? No shot that many (and I mean many) of those jobs are simply gone due to smaller business going under due to excessive taxes and the utter collapse of the housing industry.

The only way to keep these corporations in America or to bring them back is to significantly lower corporate tax rates. But that is against everything liberals stand for.

http://www.examiner.com/finance-exam...oving-overseas

US corporate tax rates the primary cause for companies moving overseas

The US corporate tax rate has become a new cause for companies to move overseas to avoid what is the largest tax burden in the industrialized world. At 35%, the US tax rate on companies and businesses is nearly triple the rates in some places, and well above the tax requirements of countries such as Ireland and Switzerland.

In an expose on March 27th by CBS's 60 Minutes, hundreds of companies, and over $1.1 trillion dollars, are now being kept overseas providing nothing to the US economy due to stringent tax laws and regulations which make it difficult to invest, create new jobs, and find profitability if incorporated in America.

Cisco alone has moved eight different companies to Ireland, where the tax rate is at 12.5%. On top of this, google, Facebook, and several other technical firms employ over 100,000 workers in Ireland, which they might otherwise employ in the US if the tax code was changed or adjusted.

While many companies moved to China, India, and other places around the world for cheaper labor, one of the main reasons for the move offshore was the draconian tax rates the US government imposes on businesses headquartered domestically. In an poll taken in January on the Fair Tax, over 500 companies said they would instantly move back to the United States if this tax structure were implemented in the economy.

Funny thing is that there are tons of people coming into the country that are able to find jobs...

Even more funny is a good deal are hired cash only and don't pay taxes.. And even funnier yet alot of the Employers are die hard boot conservatives that bitch and moan about the defecit yet hire non documented workers who tax the medical system and don't pay taxes that would reduce the defecit. None work in your barn of course... Just sayin.

Nobody. We are swimming towards our best, most profitable decade in the past 100 years, with record GDP growth and a burgeoning middle class expansion. Construction, electronics, automobiles - flourishing!

Or, our middle class has been effectively destroyed for years, the majority of the wealth of this country is now in the hands of a few, businesses are holding 1.2 trillion out of the economy, our jobs are all overseas, Wall Street no longer makes money by growing strong corporations but by gambling on their success or failure at the expensive of investor funds, corporate CEOS have zero incentive to make their businesses successful for their investors as they still get million-dollar bonuses even if their company goes bankrupt, the days of steady 8-10% investment growth over years of time in 401K's is long gone, and the GOP wants even more tax breaks for their corporate masters, the poor suffering businessmen. Who would make jobs, lots, of jobs, tons fo jobs, if we would just cut their taxes even more, so they would feel ... "confident".

Oh, yeah, and can we disassemble all regulation - workplace safety, employee, EPA, etc. - to make it more convenience for them to do whatever the hell they want with no accountability? Great! Thanks.

There is no "Excessive Taxes". What rates are you specifically referring to? I'm small businessman, and I know what my tax rates have been over the past 20 years, and they are down, with special breaks over the past 3 years.

Whining that the tax rate is 35% is ridiculous - nobody pays that. The biggest multinationals don't pay crap, and keep their profits overseas.

What "small businesses collapses" send jobs overseas? Restaurants, cleaners, plumbers, groceries don't send jobs overseas. Small businesess run on local cash infusion from local residents. Local residents get that from paychecks. The big manufacturing companies are gone multinational. Towns are closed down and empty. The GOP won't renew unemployment benefits. They should, immediately, that's cash direct into small business pockets in a local community.

We need aggressive stimulus with direct job creation.

Waiting and hoping for multinationals to get their wet dream of removal of all labor regulations so jobs in the USA would be as cheap as sweatshops in foreign countries is absurd. Not gonna happen. Those jobs are not coming back. No matter how hard the Republicans are trying to do exactly that.

No. Those corporations also want child labor laws repealed, unions gone, and all safety and environmental regulations removed so they can crap all over the USA like they do in other countries with their minimally-paid employees and lack of safety/compliance issues earning them record profits.

Poor, poor huge corporations! My heart bleeds for them ....

The Republican party is master at passing out talking points that convince their base to vote against their own self interests and in favor of wealthy business interests. It has always completely astounded me, the blind following faith of the GOP base.

Of course, that base, the Tea Party - John Bircher - Evangelical wing, has kind of gotten out of control with the loss of the "moderate" Republican to Independence or temporary Democratic affiliation due to the horrors of Bush the Lesser and saying Sarah Palin could be President with a straight face.

But the GOP is trying to reign them in before 2012, as they know they don't have a chance with the cult crazies from Evangelical Land running for office and speaking in public.

The industrialized, highly-populated urban areas of the country are blue, and the rural, agricultural low-population areas are red.

The country is very divided.

Demand is up, population is up, prices are up (the $ is worth crap). Record profits is a bunch of crap. 10% is no record, nobody is making more than that, the $ numbers are higher for all the reasons stated above. Records profits is something they are force feeding people to make businesses look bad. Aside from GE of course who live safely under the Obrella while the poop falls on those all around them. All the others pay.

Riot, do you smoke Meth?

It's not "tactics", it's reality.

First, look at the facts of who has contributed most to destroying this country in the past decade with lying about wars, killing thousands of our young men and women, destroying the financial structure of this country, and reckless, unfunded spending and charging on the credit card.

Secondly, the GOP Governors, through Americans for Progress, Koch Brothers, ALEC, Republican Governors Association, Crossroads, etc most certainly do literally hand out bullet goals for governors. That is why all the sudden union busting stuff, the trying to privatize, the removal of home rule and appointment of "managers" by Governors, etc.

The current round of female GOP politicians of the ilk of Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin are crazy, not-intelligent cult members. They deserve to be called exactly what they are. Not ready for prime time, and most certainly not qualified to lead this country.

I've been part of the GOP my whole life, from the inside, and it's gone over the edge into craziness. The Republican leadership doesn't even pretend to represent the interests of the average citizen any more. They are a clear danger to this country.

You're welcome to them. Trying to disparage or discredit me because I want nothing more to do with that - well, have at it.

Fair question.

Unions are people, Corporations contain no actual people.