Agree that Holy Bull beat older horses...again, I put a lot of stock in TC races and Travers, especially if horse wins 2/3 in TC...comes down as I seem to keep repeating to personal opinion. Just fyi, I love the Bull but try to leave personal likes/dislikes out of rating.

Yeah, I agree but Smarty Jones and Risen Star would be right there as well. I personally feel that had his connections not been morons, Star would have easily won the TC.

Which is fine, but when you stack up what Point Given was beating in those premier races and then compare it to what Holy Bull was beating in the "less premier races", it's not even really close.

I'd rather look at the specific races and see what was actually in them, rather than just looking at the name of the race. But that is my opinion and realize it isn't shared by everyone.

No, I agree but remember how Point Given won the Preakness, Belmont and Travers...awesome horse denied TC by bad ride.

Yes, he dominated bad horses, other than Congaree. You're stuck on the names of the races. We'll just agree to disagree.

How did you do this and come up with Zenyatta at 11?

The Triple Crown races are easily the most popular and publicized races. But they are generally far from the best races.

In that case I find your decision to rank Zenyatta well in front of Affirmed even more peculiar.

I knew that would bring a lot of criticism, again nationwide closers win at about 20% of races entered, that compared to much higher rates for front runners and stalkers, imo only a horse of exceptional quality could complile a record like Zenyatta's running as a dead closer. We can debate quality etc forever...it's a decision I feel comfortable with and so....

See my 4:15pm post.

This is really one of the worst arguments that I have ever heard. You treat her style as a handicap when it is simply her style. Her record is what it is because she ran against a bunch of dogs most of the time on tracks that favored her running style. Nationwide stats are not relevant since she was running on unique surfaces 90% of the time.

May be the worst argument you ever heard but it's my point, you disagree so I see no value in further debate.

As long as you feel "comfortable" Pete with having a pisspoor list, that's all that matters. :)

My best ever list, part 2 (21-40)
 

Got so much love from part one, I figured might as well post part 2:
(21) Dr Fager (1964)
(22) Seabiscuit (1933)
(23) Buckpasser (1963)
(24) Forego (1970)
(25) Cigar (1990)
(26) Risen Star (1985)
(27) Personal Ensign (1984)
(28) John Henry (1975)
(29) Gallant Fox (1927)
(30) Brigadier Gerard (1968)
(31) Round Table (1954)
(32) Pot8o's (1773)
(33) Phar Lap (19260
(34) Tiznow (1997)
(35) Whirlaway (1938)
(36) Hyperion (1930)
(37) Ormonde (1883)
(38) Nijinsky (1967)
(39) Gladiateur (1862)
(40) Sham (1970)

Affirmed, all the way. Although I can't argue with Dr. Fager's partisans.

Pete?? John!

Whatever.

Yeah, since when does a name matter.

Not important to your list.

There are 1,608 Nerdy Trailers of which 907 are considered active.

Can you imagine if everyone did not one but two lists?

Just sayin...

#1 Zenyatta

#2 Awad

#3 Silky Sullivan

any all time list going back to the era of kincsem can't be taken seriously with zenyatta at number 11. that's a lot of horses in those centuries, and she's in the top 20. preposterous nonsense.

she won once ever in open company. tried open company all of twice in all her years of racing. gimme a break.

:tro:

forego, john henry, round table...left off, but the pretender is number eleven all time.
this thread should be moved to esoteric under 'heard any good jokes lately?'

Your point is well taken but if you look carefully the list actually goes back over 150 years before Kincsem.

i didn't look that carefully; it's not a list to be taken seriously.

Watch for my top 500 horses list, coming soon, sure to provoke many discussions about why I placed #426 ahead of #469. It's gonna blow this place wide open.

There is an obvious bias against LA breds in this list as well, I see no mention of Happy Ticket or Costa Rising on this list.