http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read


The best and most rigorous cost analysis was recently released by the insurer WellPoint, which mined its actuarial data in various regional markets to model the Senate bill. WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%. A small business based in Richmond with eight employees in average health will see a 23% increase. Insurance costs for a 40-year-old family with two kids living in Indianapolis will pay 106% more. And on and on.

Congressional Budget Office argued recently that the Senate bill would so "substantially reduce flexibility in terms of the types, prices, and number of private sellers of health insurance" that companies like WellPoint might need to "be considered part of the federal budget."


Even though Medicare's unfunded liabilities are already about 2.6 times larger than the entire U.S. economy in 2008, Democrats are crowing that ObamaCare will cost "only" $871 billion over the next decade while fantastically reducing the deficit by $132 billion, according to CBO.

Yet some 98% of the total cost comes after 2014—remind us why there must absolutely be a vote this week—and most of the taxes start in 2010. That includes the payroll tax increase for individuals earning more than $200,000 that rose to 0.9 from 0.5 percentage points in Mr. Reid's final machinations. Job creation, here we come.

The truth is that no one really knows how much ObamaCare will cost because its assumptions on paper are so unrealistic.

How else would you expect the healthy to subsidize the unhealthy et al.

and this is a scheme that would make Chas. Ponzi proud! A good portion of that 95% that supposedly starts after 2014 will actually start in 2019. By that time some of the people who will pay for the program will be long gone.

Been enjoying the recent Senate proceedings to the full


Cons sooooooo deserved to get to this point



Hopefully there's a provision in there that puts high-pitch Hannity's personal income tax rate at 95%, for good measure :D

In all fairness Wellpoint are a bunch of whores.

Its sad when a presidency as poor as Bush II's was, will soon be considered the "good old days".

President Obama is a liar and a fraud. We all will be paying so much for this **** that keeps on passing through for the rest of our lives.

If you thought this country is broke now.. just wait a few more years.

You're not a great American, SO.

What amuses me about his show is now he's playing country music before and after commercial breaks. If that doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator...

you appear to be totally incoherent,as usual! You really should seek counseling for your obsession with Hannity.

Hannity is horrendous.

No, what it is, is somebody telling me to get it about global warming, because their view is that Al Gore sucks and cannot be believed thus global warming is a lie; and me saying sorry, my opinion that global warming exists is because I look at from the point of view of my scientific training, not from the point of view of my politics.

If you interpret that as calling someone else stupid, I can't change that.

Yes, they both involve, "the government".

According to the CBO the Senate plan will markedly cut thegeneral budget deficit by trillions over 10-20 years. It depends upon the final funding for the bill, whether the Senate or House version.

The insurance lobby has been fighting health reform tooth and nail (see Joe Lieberman) because of the new restrictions on consumer abuse, what they can charge, loss of the ability to dump clients, etc.

I doubt any insurance agency cost analysis is anywhere near being objective, let alone, "the best".

But 31 million, uncovered now, will be.

That's wonderful. Terrific. The moment this bill passes, starting January 1 2010, insurance companies will no longer be able to dump sick children (cancer, etc) due to reaching lifetime limits of coverage during their childhood.

This is America. We take care of our own - or at least I think we should.

I just found this, a good, simple listing of what is in the Senate bill:
http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2009/1...other-aspects/

its fantastic, the gov. running health care....how can things be better:rolleyes:

and that is EXACTLY what you should be scared of.


Tell me this, What has the goverment actually been able to do Correctly in recent history (not the past 10 months but 20 years) that involves a government program?

The only think I am thankful for a federal goverment at all is for protecting our freedom and the military.

Social Security is a freaking mess. I put in 6% of my salary and wont ever see that. Medicare isnt exactly the most wonderfully smooth program in the world and now our whole damn country will be on medicare. This stimulus thing will ruin the country for the youth when it comes to inflation.

Goverment programs do nothing but rob hard working people. Its legal stealing.

To the Congress:





The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to
get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it
right; it is broke.


Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right;
it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it
right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to
"the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get
it right; they are broke

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right;
it is broke.

Billions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called
TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009.... none show
any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new source: the American taxpayer.

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took
cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with
high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of
the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit
for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on
failed experiments.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services"
you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans
to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?
20% of our entire economy?


With all due respect,

Are you crazy? :zz: :zz: :wf

......preaching to the choir which dr.;)

So your premise that MA shouldnt be used as an example of mandated insurance coverage was wrong. Right?

31 million is not an accurate number. That is a best case, if everything works out perfect number.

America takes care of their own unless they can already take care of themselves. Then you need to have your good fortune redistributed.

This is the single biggest deception of this whole healthcare debacle. The numbers are so juiced that it is hard to believe that anyone with a straight face could even suggest that this is possible.

Can I get an AMEN?

Cannon
They are politicians. Thet will pi$$ in your ear and then tell you its raining.:zz:

Obamacare will not only work it will reduce the budget deficet by hundreds of billions.

Think about that statement for a minute.


How in the world does anyone believe this can possibly be true? It is laughable to not only believe that this program will work but actually save money!


It will lead to massive bleeding for the Democratic party for the next 10 years or so.

As long as the voters remember...

and that is nothing compared to the bleeding the younger generations will have to deal with for the rest of their lives. We will bleed literally waiting 3 months for specialist treatment, and our pockets will bleed with incredible taxes and inflation.

Thank you Democrats!! I'll remember to vote for you guys in the next election! :rolleyes:

Thank you Democrats!! I'll remember to vote for you guys in the next election! :rolleyes:[/quote]
thats 1 for the team..and if 1 vote can be turned on a horsey board ,then 10 can be turned on the drf message board, and if 10 can be ...lol thats how o'samas speeches were ..right out of the mlk playbook.. and fyi my 20 yr old college student was a huge supporter of him..now its we were lied too..lol told ya so...

If anybody thinks the American government, and the services it provides us, is a 100% failure, I suggest you leave this country and go elsewhere, where it is better.

No. What I said was:

So?

I love it - just ignore anything you don't like hearing, and just dismiss it out of hand. You guys are hilarious :tro: What a miserable next 7 years you are going to have.

But a good plan would be to make sure we elect Libertarians or TeaBaggers at the next election cycle, and start working on getting rid of the following Federal Government intrusions on our lives, and in our pocketbooks.

Let's keep the military (defense and veterans affairs) and interstate highways.

Medicare: This has to go immediately. We can attrition Medicare out over the next 20 years. Everyone can stop paying into it immediately (immediate tax cut). We'll just use what's left already in the system to take care of current recipients until they die. Then when the people on this board hit 65, there will be nothing there for you except what you have saved yourself.

We also can probably get rid of:

Our national park system and Department of the Interior - sell off the land (thousands of acres owned by BLM, too), reduce the deficit.

NASA - kinda just a fun thing to do, no real return to us, very expensive.

CDC - hospitals, doctors can take care of this, no need for coordinating agencies. No federal funding for health care, stem cell research, etc.

Civil rights - states can work this out at the state level.

Probably also get rid of:
Departments of Justice, Agriculture, Education, Transportion, Nuclear Regulation, State, Labor, Energy, Army Corp of Engineers, Consumer Product Safety, Federal Communications Commission, Equal Opportunity Employment, Housing and Urban Development, Treasury (this might be a really good idea).

That will save us tons of money, and eliminate most federal interference in our lives. We will be back to "on our own", as the original Patriots envisioned this country!

quite simply its a giant step backwards for the nation. most people are beginning to realize that, which is why it is now so unpopular. every single person who is working to cram this disaster through based on an artificially imposed political timetable should expect to receive a pink slip next november.

how many more years can this country last with yearly deficits of $1.5 trillion?
what is your solution to that? more big programs, higher taxes?
unless we start cutting spending this whole country is going to look just like Detroit does now. Detroit is what happens when brainless liberals and unions mind the store for 50 years. the patient dies.

Health reform was enormously popular when Obama was elected, and this week it rose up again another 6 points to a majority back to favoring it. People tend to fluxuate with winners, however.

The timetable on healthcare reform has taken 40 years. It's about time for a start on healthcare reform in this country. This is a tremendous advancement for our country, starting to place us up with the rest of the first world countries on health care - finally.

Every American - person - arrested in this country is entitled to a lawyer, which we - the public - pays for if the arrested can not. I think Americans being entitled to a doctor is more important.

People have pointed out how civil rights legislation, medicare - all the major social reforms have started, then been tweeked over time. This is the same.
But this is the start. We won't leave 15% of our population to flounder any more.

Too bad the past 8 years put us at 1.2 trillion on election day 2008. Bush had a bad habit of passing things, without funding them.

The Senate health reform plan is projected by the CBO (which is independent) to cut the deficit markedly, by trillions over 10-20 years. But we'll have to see what gets into the final plan.

accusing the govt of being less than efficient isn't unpatriotic. altho ours isn't the best, it's still better than anything else.

well thats rich..if you have have never worn the uniform of our military in the countrys defence as i have you should shut your pie hole.. under this president the country is on the cusp of failure.. i would like to hear your retort on this matter..oh thats right you were never in the military or gave years of your life defending the rights of morons like you to have a opinion ..so i guess your opinion means ****..

I think you have a simple disagreement in goals going on here. If these people fighting you don't seem interested in the improvements you're mentioning, it's because they don't value these things. They value exclusivity. They aren't interested in changes that make for a more decent (civil) society at all. They don't value that, and there is nothing that can be done to make them better people. They are selfish, and forcing companies to treat people in a decent way isn't going to interest them very much. Do they seem interested? They are what they are. You can't change selfish minds with arguments that have a payoff that involves protecting all citizens from a poor outcome. They aren't highly interested in that. Notice how these consumer protections haven't thrilled them? They lack the values that are necessary for one to be able to cherish such important consumer protections.

we aren't spartans, hooves.

you fought under a civilian commander in chief, as did every other member of the armed forces.

don't throw your service into the pot like a cheap poker chip in a penny ante game. it's worth more than that. and whether you like it or not, you served to protect the right of everyone in this country to express an opinion.

nancy pelosi and rush limbaugh. acorn activist and teabagger.

you get one vote like everyone else.

true..i give myself a political time out.....

I'm just appalled. How could you talk to a nice person like that?

You think only people who have served get a voice? Sorry. Everyone does. If you've served, I have great respect for that. I've lost people I knew in Viet Nam, and have relatives and friends who are lifetime military. Few are not touched by that.

But don't hold yourself up as more worthy of an opinion about this country than any other American. You think this President is putting this country on the cusp of failure, well plenty of other people do not, including me. You think anyone who disagrees with you is a moron? That says far more about you than the people you diss.