This thread is frightening.

If Rachel can win the BC Classic next year assuming that her campaign doesn't end in Aug-Sept, then maybe she can have a race named after her also. This renaming of races is alot of nonsense to me anyway, I don't think this cheapens Lady's Secret legacy to any knowledgable race fan, there are many races that have been renamed and while I would have kept the name of the race the way it was, I am not getting worked up over it, this just seems to be another way to pile to take shots at Zenyatta by her naysayers. I'm going to file this one away when Rachel has a race named after her and if the circumstances are simliar will there be the same vociferous objections.

if they renamed the honeybee, the martha washington or the fantasy, i wouldn't care. but if they took away say, the personal ensign and renamed it, i would definitely have a problem. as was said above, it's not zen getting a race-it's lady's secret losing one.

You have to admit, if a race was renamed after Rachel Alexandra alot of these same bashers would probably stand and applaud it.

Way to totally miss the point.

Not true. They shouldn't be naming a race after a horse who retired a few weeks ago. I would be against it if it was for Rachel as well. Try again.

i doubt it. everyone has been pretty consistent about renaming races and getting angered by it. the la troienne immediately comes to mind, as does the sir barton being renamed the barbaro-and we all know how popular barbaro was/is. you're projecting since anything regarding zenyatta seems to make you immediately on the defensive. this has nothing to do with which is better, and has everything to do with lady's secret getting the boot.

Not really, I'm bored.

But For argument's sake:

Lady's Secret raced once at SA winning the Distaff.

Zenyatta has won 2 BC and 2 LS's and created history by being the 1st filly/mare to win the Classic all at SA.

Though as I stated renaming races is alot to do about nothing to me, if they were to rename a race, this one is not outrageous by any means by what she accomplished at SA. From a historical standpoint she has had alot more memorable monents at SA than LS did.

It's not like they are renaming the Lady's Secret the Lethal Heat Stakes. :rolleyes:

Why do I find that hard to believe?

I have no idea. I don't think Cigar should have a race named after him. Does that help?

Well if there were only a King or Queen in N.Y like they have overseas... or maybe we could call it the Barrack or Michelle Obama Hdcp.

crow? Someone asks a question in a podcast to her rider....he says "I think she was better on dirt"..........Crow? Wow. He should say listen you dumb suma of a bitcch...dont ask me no dirt questions

I would've been happier with that answer. Bottom line is both of them have said it, and it's completely meaningless since they could've proven what they think, and didn't bother.

Please look stuff up beforehand.

Lady's Secret nearly took the entire La Canada series at SA, and also won the Santa Margarita.

The only reason people shouldn't care about the switch is that the Lady's Secret Handicap was created solely as a prep for the Breeder's Cup back in '95 I think, so while the horse's name is quite historic the race itself is not.

Okay I stand corrected, I should have stated of her major wins only the Distaff was at SA. The rest were at various tracks, but the point was and wouldn't you agree that from a historical standpoint Z's accomplishments were better at SA than LS and this is in no way disrespecting LS as a racemare, we all know she was one of the alltime greats.

Moccasin Stakes (1984)
The Darley Test (1985)
Ballerina Handicap (1985)
Monmouth Regret Stakes (1985)
Ruffian Handicap (1985, 1986)
Beldame Stakes (1985, 1986)
Maskette Handicap (1985, 1986)
Whitney Handicap (1986)
Molly Pitcher Handicap (1986)
Shuvee Handicap (1986)
Breeders' Cup wins:
Breeders' Cup Distaff (1986)

So now the Santa Margarita and La Canada are not major wins? They're both marquee events at the SA winter meet. Nice backslide.

Geez, what are Zenyatta's big wins outside the BC races?

Guess what? The El Encino is the 2nd leg of the La Canada series, and LS won that too, anyways.

As mentioned previously, the Lady's Secret Hcp is strictly a prep created for the BC.

Not a backslide, the page I went to listed LS's major wins so my error was and I admitted to it (they didn't list La Canada as a major win) was I didn't dig further for her entire race record.

BTW The La Canada & El Encino Stakes are rated as grade 2 races and the Lady's Secret is a grade 1, The question was which horse has been more influential at SA and I think when you look at their records at SA you can only come up with one horse.

BTW this is an opinion, you can say this about the Jockey Gold Cup also. Does it tarnish this race because of it's timing of the race? Judging by your reasoning for the LS, it would.

Terrible comparison. The Lady's Secret was created specifically as a prep for the BC. The JCGC was the BC before 25 years ago.

But what race a month or 2 months before the BC isn't a prep today, it is unfair to single out The LS, that is why there is a grading system in place. Regardless Zenyatta has won 4 grade 1's at SA, 2 at the highest possible level, one with massive historically impact, LS has only won 1 at the highest level. If one is impartial that is still 1 better than LS even giving her the benefit of the doubt of The La Canada series that Rollo wants to give her.

The La Canada and Santa Margarita were Grade 1s when Ladys Secret won them.

By the way this 'highest level' BS being exclusive to BC races is exactly what is wrong with racing.

Suddenly other Grade 1s aren't as important. I guess we'll have to rethink our assessments of Skywalker, Success Express, Arcangues, etc.

Well said.

NT

You're missing the point. It's about the historical significance of the race. Rollo's point was that the Lady's Secret was created solely as a BC prep, whereas the JCGC has been around for a million years and used to be the equivalent of the BCC. We're not talking about what the races mean TODAY (although the JCGC still dwarfs the LS today).

:wf :wf

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Still with the throwing $hit against the wall, hoping against all hope that something actually sticks.

Unfortunately, not everybody on this board is a total moron, so the wild inaccuracies, dishonest backpedalling, and fingers crossed while making a losing case just doesn't fly quite as well here as it does with the drunks at the OTB where someone like CSC may be able to just lie through his teeth and come off as awfully smart since nobody knows any better to just say STFU you're in over your head with this one.

Solid work again, Rollo.

Can I please have a link for your avatar?:{>:

YGPM

Yes good work but you should have also mentioned one of the races you cited was only a Grade 3 The El Encino and not it's present grade 2 status to make it excellent work.

Not to mention The La Canada was so good that it was eventually downgraded to a Grade 2, my original point was Zenyatta's BC Distaff, 2 LS's and BC Classic wins are more impressive any way you cut it than LS's Santa Margarita, El Encino, La Canada and BC Distaff wins. I am neither agreeing or disagreeing whether I agree with the name change but when you stack Z's SA record against LS's the decision to recognize her it was a good one. Whether this was the race to do it in is anyone's guess.

I will stick to horseracing and not get personal as you seem to have taken this, but keep trying in convincing me that Macho Again and Bullsbay are great racehorses. We know your motives, maybe if you keep saying it enough, it will eventually stick to the wall.

Neither beat any great horses, but Rachel took her game with her to multiple tracks (fast and wet) and beat males over and over, while Zenyatta stayed in her backyard and beat up on the same lousy mares all year with the exception of the Classic (still in her backyard of course). This is what makes it an open-and-shut case to me. FFS, they scratched Zenyatta out of the Louisville because the track was wet. That's not a champion.

Ok we talk circles with Z & RA, we know that by now... On a different note is it too much to ask just 1 RA fan to finally admit that the Travers would have been a better test for RA than the Woodward?

If she ran in the Travers and won you would be spinning it that it was because of the sloppy track.

I have to make one note, Einstein was blasted in the Classic and still finished a respectable 3rd today, I think this is a testament how good a race the Classic was. A much better race than the Woodward is starting to look like and to be impartial(just so BS cannot throw out the bias card) perhaps also the JCGC. The older male division was a joke this year.

I think it would've been a tougher test, but not for the reasons you think. She crushed Summer Bird a month prior, why would she suddenly have had trouble with him? I think the Woodward was smarter just because I question her ability to go 10 furlongs as effectively as 9. That being said, I think she would've won the Travers too.

Way to contradict yourself. The Classic was awesome, but the older male division was a joke? As much as I like Blame, that was not a very fast race today, so I don't think Einstein should be given extra credit for finishing third.

And if she also ran in the Belmont, JCGC, Classic and she will blast SB by the same margin next year...And if she can blast him next yr can I say I told you so...It's not my style but I'm sure many wouldn't let me off so easy.

It isn't? Glad to see you have trouble reading like others here, way to ignore the point, Einstein being blasted in a race Z was much the best in and finishing a respectable 3rd today, where was Bullsbay and Macho Again today...3 weeks ago 2 months ago..Nice try at diverting the conversation.

Wait, for her to beat up on the same 3yos she had already ROMPED on would have been a better test than beating older horses? Or wait, sorry, she hadn't crushed the mighty Hold Me Back yet....good point.

Only in your fantasy world, my friend. Only there.

If you could figure out how to use the quote button, I might know what point you were referring to. You do realize Macho Again beat Einstein in the Foster right? Kind of flies in the face of your otherwise ironclad "Einstein beat Macho Again today so Zenyatta is better than Rachel Alexandra" corollary.

Let's be clear she only romped 3 yr old males once this year, no one in their right mind can say that Macho Again & Bullsbay are better than Summer Bird or Quality Road, the beating 3 yr old males reason to me is a roundabout way of saying we are going the easiest route and I'm just not buying the making history point was the sole reason. I'm sure if Cigar or Skip Away had still been around she would have had a reason ready to go in the Alabama also.

The point is now, what kind of horse is MA. After RA was all out to beat him, he has been blasted by SB, and off a freshening where he was the favorite a well beaten horse today. He was also beaten by a horse that has run decent races on poly and just happened to be a distant loser to Z. Now are all these races absolutely true efforts, probably the answer is yes and no on this one, but even allowing for 1 off effort by both neither has come back to run a race worthy of a Whitney winner or a horse that was held to a higher rep for pushing RA to the limit. Whether one wants to see this or not, today's Clark flattered Z more than it did RA, even if it was arguably a small win.