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Neither Olympio nor Best Pal had a viable excuse for getting lit up by Hansel in the Preakness. Both didn't miss anytime following their defeats and in fact finished the last half of the year strongly. While one would have to concede off the winter Santa Anita races that Dinard held a slight edge over those two, it certainly wasn't anywhere near the tune of 10 lengths. Quote:
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Dance Smartly vs. Black Tie Affair in the 91 Classic.
BTW I thought her BC Distaff was her second worst race of the year to the Prince of Wales at Fort Erie. |
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At 8f, KG would have a shot, but at 9f+ I'd give him little or no chance. |
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It happens. I've been dunked on by Rollo before. But instead of just brushing it off and moving along... you pulled the goalie and came with the throw as much crap at the wall and hopefully something sticks offense. It didn't work ... and now I have an empty net to shoot at. Here's a recap of April 4th '92 at Santa Anita: Race #1: Turf Race #2: 32K older male claimers went 8.5fs in 1:42.76 Race #3: Turf Race #4: N1X alw race for fillies went 6fs in 1:09.75 Race #5: Santa Anita Derby went 9fs in 1:49.25 Race #6: a MSW race at 6.5fs went in 1:16.01 Race #7: Turf Race #8: San Bernardino went 9fs in 1:47.33 Race #9: a MSW race at 6.5fs went in 1:16.56 You're claiming that a variant should have been split. Well, at what point in the card exactly? 32K older male claimers ran a 95 Beyer in race 2 - A. P. Indy ran a 95 Beyer in race 5 - and Another Review ran a 114 in Race #8. You're basically arguing that the track was very fast for the first two dirt races ... and someone slowed the speed of the track down markedly for the Santa Anita Derby ... but just minutes after the SA Derby... the track had magically returned to the same speed it was just minutes before the SA Derby. The only rational thing you could have attempted to argue is that a timer malfunction occured. I've already discussed how the winner was scratched from his next race - and the 2nd and 3rd place horses didn't win a single race the rest of the year ... but here's a recap of the rest of that field: 4th place finisher Hickman Creek - came out of the race with an injury and was sidelined the rest of the year. Failed in his next 5 starts - all at the N2X alw level. 5th place finisher Fax News - was soundly beaten in each of his next 7 starts 6th place finisher Solid Turth - made his next start in a 50K claimer and finished 7th 7th place finisher Proud Memories - Was beaten 16 lengths in a MSW race his start before the SA Derby - was beaten 15 lengths in the SA Derby - and was 9th beaten 10 lengths at the MSW race level his start after the SA Derby. |
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As for Easy Goer, he was a bit handier than you care to admit. Recall he blitzed them in the Swale going 7f in a quick time. As far as the cheap speed he was facing, certainly Is It True was a classy horse who defeated the same horses King Glorious made his name beating at both 2 and 3 (Music Merci, Roi Danzig). Though not top class, it should be noted that the speed horses EG chased in both the Gotham and Swale (Diamond Donnie and Trion) had run the rest of the field enough off their feet to hold the place spots. Not sure what the implication was when alluding to the '90 Met Mile, but it being his penultimate start along with the reported ankle troubles throughout his career that were soon to end it, is enough to suggest that he was perhaps not at his best physically at that point. Its unfair to take that race at face value if at the same time we forgive King Glorious for failing to have constitution enough to race beyond July of his 3yo year. |
I would have liked to have been at the 1958 Santa Anita Derby with $100 to win on Silky Sullivan. Could you imagine the feeling when SS dropped 28 lengths behind.
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You keep bringing up Best Pal. How well, exactly, did he do outside of California? Wasn't he one of those California superstars that did even better outside of California, or am I confusing him with Lava Man? Olympio was a solid race horse, and on his best day pretty damn good. I really don't know how to place him in the context of this thread. |
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I gotta try to find video of that race sometime.... |
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King Glorious was good enough to hold on for a three-length victory in the $500,000 Haskell Handicap today at Monmouth Park, but left the impression that stronger opposition and longer distances may give him serious trouble. The California-based front-runner ran his career record to 8 for 9 today and became the sport's newest millionaire. But his slow final furlong and final time, as he shortened stride badly through the stretch, suggested he would have difficulty handling Easy Goer and Sunday Silence, the nation's top 3-year-olds. |
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To be fair, Corporate report was bested by Best Pal in the Swaps in CA, and Olympio beat him in the Arkansas Derby (though CR was making maybe his 3rd career start). So I guess that means Dinard was a lock for the Travers, too. Quote:
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I cannot account for how they do things, or how they used to do things, but I do know I've seen them adjust figs on a card seemingly without reason. I don't care what nonsensical facts you throw at me. I saw the race, my friends saw the race, thousands of others saw the race, and that was no allowance type of performance. |
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So now you are using the Travers winner to show how good the Preakness and Belmont winner was, and you are using the Preakness/Belmont winner to show how good the Travers winner is. Yeah, Best Pal was 2nd in the derby. Again, the field wasn't very strong, but since he beat Hansel, I guess you'll argue differently. I had forgotten about the Oaklawn race. Honestly, I don't remember who he beat nor do I have the ability to find out right now. Refresh my memory please, as to whom he beat. |
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Unless they have a fortune of money to lose and don't mind losing it. |
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In 3rd was the very good Twilight Agenda. |
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That was my mistake about the SA Derby. He said Houston wouldn't be favored and Sunday Silence would be the third choice. As for who's got more credibility between the riders and the writers, take your choice. I'd rather have the opinion of those that have ridden him and competed against him over someone who's just watching them. Writers aren't always right. It was writers that made Favorite Trick the 1997 HOY. But even in that piece from Crist, notice that he said that the impression is that LONGER distance and STRONGER opposition would give him trouble. I've never disagreed with that. |
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The excuse in January in the press: King Glorious's physical condition has been under a cloud for most of his career, but it remains unclear whether he will skip the Triple Crown races because of his knee injury or because his handlers think he cannot handle the longer distances of those races. Hollendorfer has said that he thinks the colt's best distance is a mile or less, rather than the mile and a quarter of the Derby. Most handicappers had strong reservations about King Glorious's ability to handle the Triple Crown distances even before he was injured. He was voted the nation's second-best 2-year-old behind Easy Goer, and was scheduled to begin his 3-year-old campaign in the El Camino Real Derby on Jan. 15. A few days before that race, however, Hollendorfer said the colt had strained his right knee. He said X-rays have shown some minor bone deterioration in the knee that veterinarians say will correct itself if the colt is rested. Of course, a few weeks later, one his owners, once King Glorious was ready to run again, claimed it was all just a very elaborate lie to get out of running in the ECR Derby. So I guess they were always passing off different flavored bullsh!t when it came to this horse and you can pick the one you like. |
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Inside Information raced against the clock in the distaff on a sloppy track earlier in the day and the time was impressive, but at 1 ¼ and on a listed stickier track in the Classic, Cigar would have broke her down, one thing times do not tell in a race are race dynamics and the pressure a horse can emit on its competition. Cigar would have tracked her, pressured her and broke her in the last furlong. I will say this she was a slop monster but as we have seen Cigar was not chopped liver on a wet track either. |
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After King Glorious worked a half-mile last Saturday at Bay Meadows, there was a swelling in his right leg. Two veterinarians--Dennis Mulhern of UC Davis and Jack Robbins of Los Angeles--examined him and determined that the colt should be withheld from heavy training for a month. And the El Camino Real Derby: Hollendorfer said: "We've been downplaying the Derby even before this happened. We haven't set our goals too far ahead with this horse. Our year- end goal was the $1-million race at Hollywood Park (the Futurity) and we reached that. Then our next goal was the El Camino Real, and we're disappointed about missing that. The Kentucky Derby is too far down the road to speculate about it." On Friday at Bay Meadows, a shipment of 16,000 baseball caps arrived, with the wording "Will the King Reign?" printed on the front. The caps were going to be given to fans attending the El Camino Real. Some of these quotes in this and other posts come from LA Times and the NY Times (when they actually had a horse racing column in the sports page). |
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A.) Jerry Bailey wouldn't have used Cigar and forced him out of his comfort zone just to pressure a filly. Had Inside Info run in the Classic she wouldn't have been viewed as Cigar's only possible danger. B.) horses don't run faster - they run slower races when taken out of their comfort zone to pressure another rival. See Cigar's Pacific Classic. 2nd place finisher L'Carriere, like mostly all of the horses Cigar beat, was pretty much a bum. Before running 2nd in the BC Classic .. he was 4th in the Meadowlands Cup behind former nickle claimer turned Juan Surey move-up Poor But Honest. In his start after his 2nd place finish in the BC Classic - he was 4th to Wekiva Springs. This kind of sillyness reminds me a lot of how every single trainer I talked with up here swore Mine That Bird would have beat Rachel Alexandra in the Ky Derby. And many insisted Rachel Alexandra would have run no better than 5th in the Derby. It's amusing how dumb people act when you talk about fillies running against males. I'm surprised there still aren't people who insist Rags To Riches would have had no shot of beating Curlin in the Belmont ... even though she actually did run in the Belmont - and actually did win the race. |
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In the Pacific Classic his hand was forced by an overzealous Nakatani on Dramatic Gold to run early with the legitimate speedball Siphon on the lead, the fact that he won the battle against a horse like Siphon but only to lose the war to Dare And Go post Dubai illustrates to me he would have fractured Inside Information in the classic(again 1/8th farther than the Distaff and a yr earlier when he was probably better) had she ran. In 95 there is no way Inside Information could have won the battle and survived the war against Cigar, and I don't even think he would have had to run with her early, all he would have had to have done is lay off of her, make that sweeping move on the turn and cruise on by per his normal MO. |
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His only hope, and it would have been a slim one at best, would have been to try to duel her into submission. |
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And though she outlasted them all, at 3 she was no better than 3rd or 4th amongst Heavenly Prize, Lakeway, and Sardula. Really, some their efforts as 2 and 3yos outweigh anything she ultimately did as a 4yo. Meanwhile, Siphon ran some wickedly fast races at a variety of distances (6-10f) from '95-'97. |
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you are sexist towards fillies! now i know!!! ;) :D |
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Azeri didn't try the boys when she was at her best. You say remember what happened to Azeri. Why not say remember what happened to Winning Colors, Rags to Riches, Rachel Alexandra, Goldikova, Zarkava, Lady's Secret, Miesque, Ridgewood Pearl, Safely Kept.........I could go on and on and on? |
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Ouigi Board.. makyvi Diva (sp?).. Pride.. that one really good mare Sunshine something from some Asian country... The best mares beat the colts (well if given the opportunity of course) |
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