Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Really there is no hope for change in this country. (See what I did there?)

Judging from the poll results to this thread the majority of us are conditioned to the two-party system. That system has prohibited you from having the choice to marry. How you could be a supporter of it is beyond me. You, out of all people, should abhor it as much as I do.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

But in all honesty, how do you suggest we break free of a two-party system? How does that look? How does that happen?

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

And so yea, I'm unfortunately happy to take the lesser of the two evils...given the choices, I'm a huge Obama fan. But I'd admittedly be perfectly comfortable with someone even more to his left, so I'm especially out in the cold as a ZOMG SOCIALIST.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well this Jeffrey H. Anderson guy sure seems like a decent, honest, fair-minded son of a gun.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jeffrey+h.+anderson

Fail #2.

Originally Posted by pointman

I am sorry you don't like the author.

Originally Posted by pointman

It doesn't change the fact that he is hurting us on foreign policy..

Originally Posted by pointman

I am sorry you don't like the author. It doesn't change the fact that Obama's plan is a disaster that will cost trillions of dollars to cover a small percentage of people. It doesn't change the fact that that he has attempted to mislead the American People to its actual cost and the taxes that we are going to pay for it. It doesn't change the fact that he is hurting us on foreign policy. He took missiles out of Poland that protected our allies to appaise the increasingly threatening Russian's and got nothing in return. He has chilled relations with our ally Isreal. He has shown he is a neophyte and can't even get things done with his party controlling both houses. He made unrealistic promises he could not keep in his campaign. I could go on and on. These are not signs of good leadership.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

It doesn't change my basically unfounded opinion that Obama's plan is a disaster that will cost trillions of dollars to cover a small percentage of people.

It doesn't change my basically unfounded opinion that that he has attempted to mislead the American People to its actual cost and the taxes that we are going to pay for it.

It doesn't change my basically unfounded opinion that he is hurting us on foreign policy.

In my odd fantasy world the united states already had missiles in poland and He took missiles out of Poland that protected our allies to appaise the increasingly threatening Russian's and got nothing in return

in my odd fantasy world this is what you posted and i couldn't argue with any of it.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

...in my odd fantasy world..............fits you to a "T"

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

It doesn't change my basically unfounded opinion that Obama's plan is a disaster that will cost trillions of dollars to cover a small percentage of people.

It doesn't change my basically unfounded opinion that that he has attempted to mislead the American People to its actual cost and the taxes that we are going to pay for it.

It doesn't change my basically unfounded opinion that he is hurting us on foreign policy.

In my odd fantasy world the united states already had missiles in poland and He took missiles out of Poland that protected our allies to appaise the increasingly threatening Russian's and got nothing in return

in my odd fantasy world this is what you posted and i couldn't argue with any of it.

Originally Posted by pointman

Where do you live? Fantasyland?

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Um, no. That's not "blame Bush," although the way you invoke that saying even when nobody is blaming Bush makes me think that you really believe that just saying "Blame Bush" gets you out of anything.

To be more succinct, it's not "Blaming Bush" to blame YOU for not giving a $hit about what the President is doing unless a Democrat is in office.

That's your inconsistency, which we've covered in great detail here in the past, so I need not do it again - but if it serves you well to consider an entirely inaccurate use of "Blame Bush" as your get out of jail free card for not having to be responsible for your own glaring hypocrisy, then by all means, carry on.

Originally Posted by GBBob

I'm still searching for all the right wing posts from pre..umm..8 months ago. I know they are there somewhere because Repubilicans care about THEIR country so much more than anyone else so I'm sure they were busy posting before a Democrat became President but I keep looking for the Republican posts before a Dem became President but all I can find is...


nothing

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

No, it's just that all of this smacks of intellectual dishonesty. The problem with Chuck is that it's all "We care about spending money, we're fiscally conservative....unless it's our guy. We care about transparency....unless it's our guy."

We'll see if "our" boy turns out to be a disaster. The guy before has already been spoken for as an overwhelming disaster, at least Obama still has time to salvage the ship.

Me, like I've said all along, I'll continue to wait and see how things turn out and take responsibility for my vote then, and it should be easy, considering the wildly unmitigated obvious disaster you all claim we're heading into. Time will tell.

At least I'm consistent. I make no qualms about how liberal I'd like him to be and what I'd like to see happen. I don't pretend I give a $hit about money and about morals etc, when your guy is President but then stop when my guy's President. It's not my consistency that's up for debate here.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Settle down.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Get off your soapbox. I'm not exactlysure what I need to get out of?
The fact is that you want to belittle anything negative said about Obama or his "plan" and are deflecting from the issue with your comments about the last 8 years and our not actively complaining enough to make you happy. That is simply a diversionary tactic that you and others have used quite consistently.

I am not the issue here and do not need a get out of jail free card. Calling me a hypocrite amuses me. Here is a definition:
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion. Well this doesnt seem to be the case

2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings Nor does this.

Maybe I am something else?

Again your post was typical liberal nonsense as was your follow up. Pointman and I and you arent the issue and you know it. Call me all the names you want but that doesnt change the fact that Obama is a mistake.

Originally Posted by pointman

I certainly won't. Nice try

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...cJA9hKmHRPxJ8H

Originally Posted by pointman

You really are a true democrat, don't let facts get in your way. First, why can't we consider the cost of what Obama is proposing? Here are some facts, 90% of Americans have health insurance. Of the 10% that do not have health insurance, 5% of those can afford to have health insurance and choose not to. That leaves 5% of Americans uninsured and our great President wants to spend over a trillion dollars with his proposal to insure those people. By the way, a large part of that 5% that are uninsured are young healthy individuals who are not in the workforce long enough to get healthcare. The point is that his proposals are unrealistic, too expensive and will be costly, and the costs will be passed onto the taxpayers.

What happened to Obama's transparency? He stated that he would release his proposals on his website for all to see, yet now he tries to shove it through Congress for no one to see, then tries to place much of the cost under other bills to claim that it costs less than it really does, and vastly underestimates the actual costs of his bill. He obviously thinks that people are stupid, but Americans are waking up in droves and a majority are now against his proposals.

The notion that people with life threatening conditions don't get healthcare is a fallacy. Emergency rooms cannot turn down treatment to people with life threatening conditions. Most public areas have a State or county run hospital which provides free services to those who are uninsured.

I don't think anyone here is saying that the healthcare system doesn't need reform, but many of us are against socializing medicine and don't believe the costs justify do so. Socializing healthcare will cost Americans one way or another in either increased premiums or increased taxes, and those taxes will fall on the middle class that Obama promised not to tax. Many of us do not believe that taxing and spending in this economy is a good move, but that is what the democrats want to do. Herbert Hoover tried this solution and look where it got this country.


As has already been pointed out, the States or local municipal governments, through our taxes, which we are already paying and are fine with, provide education, police, firefighters and even free medical care!

Oh yeah, those greedy insurance companies. Just another democratic lie. The actual facts are that they average approximately 2%, well below other industries. And those profits did not balloon during the Bush years as Obama/Pelosi would have you believe. Here is a link to the true facts:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

I guess we should socialize that greedy railroad industry, after all they are making a 12.6% profit a year! How about network and communications, those greedy bastards are making a 20.4% profit!

Obama is a disaster as is Pelosi. Only the truly stupid still defend Obama at this point.

Originally Posted by GBBob

No man...just care as much when your "boy" was f.u.c.k.i.n up as much as when you think our "boy" is.

And if Obama and his cabinet hadn't done what they did, the RIGHT would have a whole lot more to whine about than they already do, which is hard to believe because there ain't any bigger crybabies now than the Republicans.

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

:zz:

Originally Posted by GBBob

Well..it's true

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Nice website!

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

So disingenuous.

But, to be fair, also totally expected.

Well played.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

First you misrepresented with hypocrite. Now disingenuous? What is going on with your vocabulary?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have no ties or political aspirations tied to the GOP.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I take the fact that you think enough of Republicians that you would expect them to overlook silly issues and horrible policies and act in a bipartisan manner. Sorry we let you down.

Originally Posted by GBBob

Not bad for a Commie, eh?

Originally Posted by brian spencer

Well since you're on a big dictionary kick and failed to see the obvious hypocrisy of pretending to care about finance, but not acting worried about it for years until some Democrat was in office -- it seems that you understanding of the word is what's lacking, not mine, since your "actions" differ from your stated "beliefs," words I pulled directly from your awesome Ctrl-V in your post.

As for being disingenuous, as you're so enjoying the definition game "lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere."

And you're being disingenuous with your knee jerk use of "Blame Bush" as your get out of jail free card. See, the problem is that for years, the Left had its fair share of over the top rhetoric...but the Right then began to realize that if they just shouted "Bush Derangement Syndrome" whenever any truly substantive criticism was lodged, they could avoid having to actually face the issue, instead just calling their opponents lunatics. It worked. You guys shout louder and more rudely, making that tactic work well.

Now, instead of facing the obvious issues -- like your sudden, dramatic interest in the nation's finances, you guys take any criticism of THAT as "Blame Bush," even when nobody is in fact, blaming Bush, but pointing out that your sudden interest in issues that were of no concern to you for nearly a decade is in fact, disingenuous. That way, you don't have to actually answer any of the criticism, because after all, it's just those same old BDS guys who can't let it go, right?!

It's a solid tactic, to be sure, and has actually worked for years and years now, casting all opposition as deranged Bush-haters. However, it doesn't make it intellectually honest. It doesn't make it genuine, and it doesn't change the fact that no matter how often you say it, your actions completely belie this faux impartiality that you so adamantly try to portray, with an entirely predictable, and laughable lack of success.

It's really inconsequential in the big picture to me, since I don't take you seriously at all on matters like this because you want to pretend to be one way, but are quite easy to count on to always act another.

You and anyone else can refuse to take me seriously because I'm a crazy Lefty, but at least that's the reason to not take me seriously, because you think my ideas would ruin the country -- not waffling about what matters to me depending on who's doing the talking like you've become so good at doing. You can think I'm crazy and not know what I'm talking about, but at least I'm consistent in my beliefs and posts and actions regarding those beliefs -- something you don't have the luxury of saying with a straight face.






OOPS!

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ohhh you got me with a tongue twister!

I would have to say your blather was well thought out at the very least.

However, you have taken liberties in that you have zero idea of what I have said about Bush's policies in the past here, in other forums or by actually talking to others. But the big issue that you seem to miss is that we aren't discussing Bush's policies anymore. If you or one of your compadres wants to discuss them simply bring them up. I would be glad to offer my input. The fact is that while i wasn't enamored with some of Bush's decisions, Obama has far exceeded what Bush did, especially in terms of wasteful govt spending in the so called stimlus package.

Your indictment(?) of the Blame Bush quote is laughable as it is still totally relevant because of the use of it by Obama. He is still blaming Bush at every opportunity.

And I hate to tell you this but us small business owners who pay taxes, employ people and basically carry this country have been paying attention to the nations finances and how it effects us for quite some time.

I think that it is hard to keep a straight face in saying that I am anything but consistent in my posts or views. You may not like those views but you are really stretching it to say that I am either hypocritical or disingenous in my political posts on Derbytrail. Your logic in trying to make that case is laughable.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Sorry dude. You and rest of them are like peas in a pod. Full-fledged GOP'ers who so transparently pretend to be somehow different than them.

Fail.

Originally Posted by dellinger63

damn and to think I've missed every post you've made calling for the removal of troops from Afghanistan, still there for Bush's war. Brass on the ground THERE have called for more troops and Obama needs more time to what?

Oh that's right important things like subsidized health care never mind the health or lives he is ultimately in charge of with the deployed troops.

IMO very hard for a guy who never had any real friends (not all his fault as his parents were more transient than gypsy's) to understand 10 friends behind you in a fight instead of 7 is an advantage and ultimately safer but let's stress on the important things like cow farts.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Well you missed it, because I haven't posted it. I haven't posted it because I don't believe it...that's the difference between what's actually true and the point you think you just scored, but failed. I've always thought Afghanistan was a necessary war at the time, wasn't mad about it then, and haven't completely made up my mind about what I'd like to see happen, but generally have no problem with the reccomendations coming from the brass over there. Giving them what they need is good with me.

Originally Posted by dellinger63

so then I agreed with you AND Riot in one night? :tro: :tro:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

$hit happens, I guess.

With the caveat that I've been slowly coming around to the idea that I'd rather we just leave Afghanistan, because it seems nearly as pointless now as the Iraq war was two weeks before we started it.

Originally Posted by philcski

I wasn't insured for 6 months until this week between the time I quit my job to move and when I got married because I have a preexisting condition which private insurance deems to be too expensive to cover (I'm diabetic, like at least 8% of the population), how do we go about rectifying situations such as that? What if I wasn't able to pay out of pocket for this like most people that would have been in my situation? Is it a GFY or should we have some sort of plan to protect our population from getting buried prematurely?

I don't normally get enthralled with public programs, such as Social Security, which I have paid a quarter million dollars into already in my career only to see $0 in the future, but this is something that needs to be done on the correct scale.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

No, you're just like the 90% or so of other conservative political commentators who remained utterly silent for years, all of the sudden are raising hell, and acting shocked that ANYONE even noticed how disingenuous of you it is, all while pretending that those calling your $hit are the ones who are deranged, dishonest, etc. Classic GOP pot kettle projection.

Sorry dude. You and rest of them are like peas in a pod. Full-fledged GOP'ers who so transparently pretend to be somehow different than them.

Fail.

Originally Posted by dellinger63

damn and to think I've missed every post you've made calling for the removal of troops from Afghanistan, still there for Bush's war. Brass on the ground THERE have called for more troops and Obama needs more time to what?

Oh that's right important things like subsidized health care never mind the health or lives he is ultimately in charge of with the deployed troops.

IMO very hard for a guy who never had any real friends (not all his fault as his parents were more transient than gypsy's) to understand 10 friends behind you in a fight instead of 7 is an advantage and ultimately safer but let's stress on the important things like cow farts.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And I hate to tell you this but us small business owners who pay taxes, employ people and basically carry this country....

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And you are the typical faux intellectual liberal who believes that only their voices and causes are important.

You are calling me out on what exactly? That I dont like Obama? How is this news?

What does anything I said or didnt say about Bush have to do with my feelings on Obama and his awful economic strategy?

There is a certain thought that must go through liberal minds, that equality is the golden rule. Everything and everyone must have equal time and equal space, equal praise and equal dissent. That is the only logic I can think of when you guys talk about why us Obama dissenters didnt bash Bush enough.

Maybe because we didnt think he was so bad? We liked a lot of his policies? We enjoyed his tax cuts? We dont buy all the global warming/kyoto nonsense?

So tell me Mr. Enlightened, exactly what social issues have I shifted far right on?
Abortion? no Gay rights? no Immigration? uh no Stem Cells? no

What else?

Need I say that you are a far more typical liberal way up in your ivory tower.

Feel free to cast more stones.

And I will continue to consistently and unabashedly express my right as an American citizen to point out all the errors and mistakes that Mr Obama is making.

Originally Posted by miraja2

:rolleyes:
Yeah, who needs soldiers or teachers or doctors or firefighters or the entire working class....they are all pretty unimportant.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Yes, because I've made a big issue out of your stand on social issues, so shifting the debate there is a good tactic to divert attention from everything I've said which makes perfect sense. That you're inconsistent and pretend to be somehow a free-thinker when you're lockstep all the way with the intellectual dishonesty that has pervaded the right, transparently so. I at least make no qualms about how far left I am and don't try to pretend I'm anything other than what I am. The whole "well I'm a conservative [when it suits me] but look, my thinking is so independant, really look, really, it is, I promise!" thing is well tread territory, and you're not the first to try it and you won't be the last to try to shift the debate to something irrelevant and away from the original debate when called on it. And good work trying to throw some Fairness Doctrine stuff in there about equal time, equal voices.

This post is one giant straw man.

As usual.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No Brian I am trying to figure out what the hell you are referring to. You call names but dont have any actual references or examples to back those names up.

I am inconsistent? Where am I inconsistent? Give me one example. Just one.

You make generalized comments and then dont even have the balls to back them up. So you are further left than I am right. Why are you better or more relevant than me?

I dont try to paint myself as any kind of fiscal centrist. If you understood the financial topics you would already know that.

You are a radical liberal. You stand lockstep on every issue with the left. Good for you. That doesnt make you any better, smarter, or more honest than the vast majority of the country that lies somewhere right of your position.

Interesting you yap about shifting the debate and topic when that is exactly what your posts have done. You have made me the topic. You didnt contribute to the discussion about the topic, you got mad because I said you are still blaming Bush. Which apparently struck a nerve. LOL

I am going today to register as an independent just to try to make your head explode.