Zenyatta couldnt beat Sea the stars with a 1/16th of a mile head start

At this point you'd have better sport wagering on how close to unanimous the voting will be. I could see Gio Ponti and Sea the Stars maybe, maybe getting a vote or two, but that's about it. In the words of the immortal Bill Paxton in Aliens, "Game over man! Game over."

I AGREE.

How can Gio Ponti get anything? He is no better then Einstein over the synthetics. If they go that route, I would take Zenyatta over him. I guess if all the top Euros go to the classic and he wins the turf, then maybe, but I highly doubt he has much of a chance.

Belmont-Travers-JCGC-BCC winner, it would be hard to keep HOY from him?

Gio Pionti could win a Group2 in Euro nevermind a G1

Rail Trip - 3rd by 3/4 @ 1 1/4mi in a 12 horse field -- not bad. Is there anyone here that doesn't think the first 4 finishers in the PC doesn't win the Woodward by daylight????????

Are you joking right now? Einstein is clearly best on synthetics... Its not even a question anymore, not dirt, not even turf, he is best on synthetics. Rail Trip is ok at best, and has NEVER BEEN ON DIRT. The winner is probablly a joke. I think he would have been last in the Woodward and the Shug horse cant run a step on dirt.
Drugs needs to get you on the poll right now.

Wow.

NT

Double Wow.

I don't want to be seen to be joining the debate late, even though I am, or joining it from a Euro-centric point of view, even though I am, but I have seen all of Rachel Alexandra's races and she's performed to a certain level, a high-class level admittedly, but not a level which marks her out as an all-time great. She also surely didn't need to improve to win at the weekend in face of what was an horrendously strong ride - one which bans are surely designed for - suggesting that she's reached, or may well have passed her peak.

I only say this because there are two higher-rated horses in Europe who, were they to come to America and win a BC race, would surely be more deserving of a Horse of The Year accolade, namely Sea The Stars and Goldikova. The former is, admittedly, none to likely to venture across the Atlantic, but the latter will, and there are plenty who would suggest that she is a significantly better mare than that one who was beaten the shyte out of to win the Woodward!

i don't.

Sea the Stars looks like a great horse and Goldikova is supposedly better than she was last year so I'm sure they'll both have great chances in the BC. However, there's no reason for the American Horse of the Year to go to a horse who's made one start in this country. There are surely honors to be given to these great horses on your side of the pond.

As far as Borel getting a suspension for his ride, that's not going to happen. That's American racing for you, like it or not.

NT

:rolleyes: :zz: :rolleyes:

I think if Sea the Stars comes here and wins the Classic, he will be HOY. If he comes for the turf, it wont matter.

What state are you in?

No way in hell.

I was playing Devil's Advocate a little bit and tend to agree with what you say.

With regards Borel (and jockeyship in general), I believe a horse needs to be given a chance to respond to the whip. When my cash is down I like a strong ride as much as the next man, and God knows we've just seen the strongest of them all return in Kieren Fallon, but Borel was nothing other than brutal at the weekend. When the wider audience sees it, it's one of those things that turns so many away from our sport.

I don't.

NT

Im not saying its a lock, but if she does not run again. He comes over and wins the Classic for run, vs Z and the Birds. I think he will get it.

That means he would also have to win the eclipse for best 3yr old..

Top 3yr old and Horse of the Year off of one race? The chances of it happening are zero...

He has no shot (for HOY).

only if he becomes Mr. Ed and gives a post race interview....

HOY is a lady yea ,yea she's a lady, hopefully she runs next year....

If many other European horses have been able to come here and win championships off of one race, I don't understand why people think it's such a dumb idea to suggest Sea the Stars should be considered. Arazi was not only named champion 2yo but was also one of the three finalists for HOY in 1991 and that was after winning the Juvenile. Singspiel was named turf champion in 1996 even though he never won a race in this country. As long as the only criteria is that a horse must have started at least once in North America, if Sea the Stars were to come over and win, he'd get my vote. If you think Rachel is the best horse, then vote for her. But to me, it would be stupid if you believe that Sea the Stars is the best, that you would not vote for a horse that is qualified.

i'd have to go back and look at the other candidates for the years mentioned, but i think euros generally only get more attention in years when we don't have viable candidates for hoy. this year is far from that scenario.

as for people talking about zenyatta in the classic, don't get your hopes up. and as for beating 'the birds', mine that bird hasn't won since may-just how good is he really, when he's yet to back up what is looking more and more like a fluke win? and beating summer bird and mine that bird puts you on par with rachel, not ahead of her.

It is time for you to become born again it is the only thing that is going to save you. King you need salvation! What does the fact that Sea the Star would crush Rachel at 11f's on the grass at Leopardstown have to do with HOY? He isn't getting within 4 lengths of her at 7f's on dirt so who cares if he would beat her around 4 turns and thru the woods at Longchamps?

Can she beat him going 10 on dirt?
That's a question that Tiznow answered twice.

Zenyatta's main competition in the Classic will come from European horses with strong turf form, not from "the birds". Zenyatta could easily finish further ahead of Mine That Bird in the Classic than Rachel did in the Preakness. I would take Einstein (who has proven synthetic form and won the Big Cap at Santa Anita) to finish ahead of "the birds".

I think so.. i have no reason to believe a grass horse is going to be exceptional on dirt

why? Have there not been plenty that have excelled on both? In this decade alone, would it be safe to say that Dubai Millenium, Sakhee and Giants Causeway excelled on the dirt?

Sea of Stars may very well hate the dirt, but why is there no reason to believe he could excel?

This thread took a turn for the outlandish and unbelievable days ago.

The difference is this year you have Rachel Alexandra in one corner.. back then you had Diplomatic Jet, Mecke, Sandpit, Talloires etc..

A victory in the BC Classic isn't going to rival all of RA's accomplishments...

Haskin sums up her accomplishments great in the article. The only filly or mare to EVER win 3 Grade 1 races against the other gender in one year.

There is absolutely no way that any horse besides Rachel Alexandra is Horse of the Year this year...

:tro: :tro: :tro:

The point is being missed here. I fully understand that Rachel has locked up the title and she is a deserving candidate. The question that isn't answered though is a different one. Is she the BEST horse to run in this country this year. This gets to the point that the criteria needs to be changed. As long as it's what it is, it doesn't make sense that the best horse may not win the award. If Sea the Stars beats Zenyatta or vice versa, I would feel that the winner is the best horse to have raced in America this year and that's who'd get my vote. I don't see why it should matter what other viable candidates there are. Arazi can be a finalist but Sea the Stars can't be? Doesn't matter if there are 100 candidates worthy. The award should go to the best horse as long as that horse qualifies and the rules say one start qualifies.

without a doubt...

YES

it's not called horse of the bcc, but horse of the year.

i still don't get why everyone is talking about a matchup with zenyatta in the classic. does anyone really think she'll run there?

i agree, emphatically.

Rachel is done for probably good. Sea the Stars could come over here and win the Classic by a pole and still not get many votes for HOY. He has no shot for HOY. What the heck does one race on the phoniest of surfaces prove, when after all, Richard's Kids just took down what will be just about as good a group of horses as this year's Classic will be??

Rock Hard- You really are stretching it with this one. The Quality Road thing was at least readable. Are you forgetting all the Grade 1's Rachael has won this year?

The only other conceivable horse to even talk about for this award is Gio Ponti but turf horses hardly ever win this. What if he were to win on October 3rd at Belmont, then go on and win either the BC Turf or Classic?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question as I'm not as versed in all of this as the rest of you; but shouldn't a Horse of the Year award be based on what a horse has accomplished in that year? Why would the outcome of one race, even if it's a Breeders Cup race change that?

If the "best horse to have raced in America" is the sole factor, does this have to be the best horse in America at 10 furlongs on dirt/poly? What about the sprinters. I'd like to see Sea the Stars race Fabulous Strike at six furlongs on dirt.