You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

If you can't understand that providing health care for the minority of Americans that are uninsured will help the economy - oh, yes, those big insurance companies, too, and hospitals, and thousands and thousands of "small business" doctors and health care providers (laboratories, radiology, pharmacy, etc) - aside from helping real live people, I can't help you.

If a certain provision passes (and it may not, and I assume this is what you are worried about) what it says is the only small businesses that would have to provide health care (if they do not now) would be those that have a payroll of over $250K/year. And, they can get very cheap health care for their employees if this passes, at far less than 8% of their payroll.

And additionally, having other, less expensive options - provider choices - available for purchasing healthcare only helps all small businessess by cutting their costs.

While using quite a few incorrect assumptions.

Seriously: I think some of you guys need to contact Mitch McConnell, and demand that the government stop all socialist, taxpayer-funded healthcare, and work to immediately rescind Medicare and Medicaid. Leave the veterans alone.

But so far it appears to be working just fine.

our stimulus and recovery is just fine?! really?!?! i read today that if you include people working part-time who used to work full time, and people who have given up on finding a job into the unemployment figures, that we're at almost 17% unemployment. yeah, it sounds just peachy to me. but i guess i should listen to barack more, and the naysayers less....

i read earlier today that gore has likened the battle against global warming and those who don't believe that humans cause said warming to fighting the nazis in ww2. i guess he thinks he's the modern day winston churchill.

Riot: I don't think you have the faintest idea of what's going on out there!

She does, you just don't agree with it. next

So...Obama is to blame for this? As I always ask anyone who is blaming Obama...please..what would you be doing differently? Details Deb, AJ, Cannon, Dell...Nothing? No Stimulus? No bailouts? No cash for clunkers?

Wait..I know...tax cuts....strip all funded programs, let the rich pay less and hope that Reagan's pipe dream actually works:zz:

"The unemployment rate fell to 9.4 percent as the U.S. economy shed 247,000 jobs in July, the government announced on Friday morning. The drop -- the first in 15 months -- comes as a surprise; economists had expected the rate to rise to as high as 9.7 percent.

By a broader measure that includes people who've given up looking for work or who can't find full-time jobs, the unemployment rate fell to 16.3 percent, down from 16.5 percent in June."


'Zig, read this synopsis of the major economic indicators this guy has cobbled from Bloomberg, etc. We're not out, by any means, and won't be soon, but we are standing back from the precipice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-s..._b_254600.html

Obama has already given them a tax cut in their paychecks.

That can't be true..he's a communist

i'm not one to say that the exact opposite is the correct way. what i am saying is that things are certainly far from rosey, and that now is not the time to be spending billions more dollars we don't have than we are already spending. if the deficit is the huge problem many feel it is, how can growing that deficit be the answer?

obama is another politician. no more, no less. you won't see me on here cheerleading for any party. to me they are both the same, out for themselves and what keeps them in power. and no, no cash for clunkers-how ridiculous. as for the banks, that was years in the making, and should never have been allowed to occur. the war in iraq wouldn't have happened either-these are rhetorical questions, right? so i can turn back time?


edit-and no, i don't think obama is to blame for 'all this'. but i think he's ignoring what is really going on right now in his attempt to push this health care idea. this is not the right time for the govt to become larger. instead, he needs to end our two wars that are doing so much to drain our funds-that is our biggest expense, and is what took us from good times to bad. he's not to blame, our govt is. and right now, he's the leader of that govt. d.c. got us into this mess, they need to get us out. but i won't hold my breath.

one which i recall i said was ridiculous and unnecessary-with the state we're in, there should have been no cuts, and a freeze put on govt budgets, most of which saw an increase when the stimulus passed.

and here lately, i've been reading an awful lot about teachers and govt workers (maybe just in this state, but somehow i doubt it) who 'retire' and then go right back to the same job-double dipping from the public trough. it angers me. obama worrying about 'his presidency' when the country is on the line angers me. he's supposed to be our leader, not worrying about his ego or his legacy.

and i didn't think i'd ever see where almost double digit true unemployment was backing away from a precipice. positive job growth will convince me we're heading in the right direction-and that will take a lot of time. i've seen 2013, 2014 mentioned as when that could happen.

This is fantasyland. And I hate to inform you but payrolls of $250k a year is about $4800 a week. That is hardly the type of business that can afford to provide healthcare or be hit with a penalty for not providing it. If your payroll is $250k a year for your businrss the chances of the owner of the business making more than $250k a year are almost zero. Remember that little lie about raisng taxes on incomes of 250k or less? I understand there are differences in the exact wording and classification but a tax on a mans business is a tax on the man. Not to mention the ridiclous notion that somehow healthcare for all will provide the economy a boost. That is total bs. The fact is that a bunch of sick people dying faster would lessen the drag that healthcare is on the economy. If that is what you mean, that the new healthcare program will be so poorly run that it will cause more seriously ill people to die quicker than maybe you are right about the economic factor. Otherwise you are simply reading the Obama talking points and taking them at face value and if there is anything that has been learned about this administration is that taking what they say at face value will probably come back to burn you when the reality sets in.

Which would be?

Yeah the stimlus is working so great they have been talking about another....

this is really bad.

i haven't seen this many pissed off old white people since they cancelled matlock.

I would change things by actually do something for the people that have been hurt the most and helped the least by the Obama agenda, small business. Instead of "creating" temporary govt fueled jobs, help the employers get back on thier feet without creating burdens like mandated healthcare. Concentrate on getting your own party in line with your ideas and not let second rate hacks like pelosi and reid who are dispised by a vast majority of the countries citizens regardless of demographic, run the show. Understand that Unions are detrimental to world trade in regards to US companies ability to compete and scale their influence back by just telling them no instead of giving them the keys to the blackhole that GM has become. Stop worrying about populist programs designed to swing votes instead of work constructively. Work on reducing the defecit now that it has been taken to epic heights. Remember that our allies abroad have been supportive of us and not keep stepping on their toes to curry favor with despots and religious maniacs.

I havent seen so many brainwashed people since the original dawn of the dead.

Its not true but never let facts get in the way of a good story

The definition of a good week certainly has changed. Yeah we only lost a quarter of a million jobs last month! But thats better than last month!

So....why don't you critique what the great one has done so far.....try balancing the book also!:eek:

i'm not quite sure how this thread got off on the tangent it did...but i went to factcheck.org to see if they had anything on obama's great health care plan, and whether it would add to our already incredibly bloated deficit. it does:


http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/oba...ws-conference/


■Obama promised once again that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade.


and as for his overall budget? ~■Obama claimed his budget "reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion" compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don’t support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut.


so, if obama has great ideas, fine. if he turns out to be a great president-wonderful. but MY beef with him is his spending, and the above shows why i'm concerned. i don't give a damn what party he belongs to, i don't care about his ability to give good speech. but all i've seen from his treasury secretary and from economists is that our economy will not do well, will continue to take blow after blow, if our deficit isn't brought under control. yet our president wants to spend even more that we don't have.

and here's this, on the stimulus spending, from a few months back:


http://www.factcheck.org/2009/06/mak...ulus-spending/


~The Obama team originally estimated, for example, that unless a stimulus plan was enacted, the unemployment rate would reach nearly 9 percent sometime in the first three months of next year....


...But as things have turned out, even with the big spending package in place, the jobless rate shot up to 9.4 percent in May, according to the most recent figures from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

When did Pelosi switch to the ultra right? She's the one using the word Nazi as did Durbin describing our soilders at Gitmo. No Riot is wrong again as usual unless the video and audio were photo-shopped. :D

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...astikas .html

and the bullies I'm talking about were on Obama's side not the old, well dressed shills turning up at these meetings who you seem to think of as far right wingnuts.

??? Yes, the definition of a good week is changed when we're in a recession.

Yes, the job loss rate is slowing, and appears to be topping out. If you bother to look at that article I posted, containing charts and graphs of the past months/years in multiple categories, we can discuss those facts, rather than off-the-cuff emotional comments.

You'll see what has been happening to the measures of manufacturing, personal spending, jobless rate, employment - all appear to be stabilizing. That's good. Very good.

Much better than being in a depression, or a deeping recession.

Bush didn't do anything (hands off approach) and the recession worsened until it was about to drop off the cliff into depression. The initial implementation of the stimulus package (the majority of it not yet in place) - an idea supported by most, yes MOST independent and major economists - appears indeed to have slowed the recession, preventing us from going into a depression.

Of course, that could have just been "chance and good luck", too.

Of course I know that the new administration was supposed to get us into a period of rapid, sustained growth inside a month or two, immediately turning everything around, and as that hasn't happened yet, the new administration is a failure. LOL.

??? What are you talking about now?

You said:
"The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this [healthcare reform] is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable."

So if you could show something that shows that people opposing healthcare reform are being called Nazi's, that would support your statement.

From what I see, there's no support for your statement at all. The few people televised or photographed or videotaped using the word Nazi seem to be those opposing the healthcare plan, and they are calling the President of the United States a Nazi.

Which is beyond absurd, aside from being insulting and offensive to anybody who cares about those lost in the Holocaust.

Nobody is calling opponents of healthcare reform a Nazi. :zz:

:zz:

The Stimulus Package? The past six months (the first six months) of his administration? All that was talked about was the recession, and passing measures to get us out. Which appear to be working, and slowing-plateauing the recession as we speak.

who then is Pelosi referring to? Her own party?

Look - when you want to change the subject to something entirely different in the middle of a discussion, please start a new thread.

oops sorry that link is broken and to be correct she didn't call them (me) Nazi's she actually said they were carrying Swastikas. Now you show me the proof of what the heck she is talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_h7iKQ3Xps

Please look at the link I posted, which has the CURRENT information.

i said 'in his attempt to push his health care'. what that has to do with the stimulus i don't know. but he is ignoring the deficit and the harm it does by attempting to increase govt spending. the health care plan he is proposing is incredily expensive, and won't cover the amount of americans he says it will. a very costly plan for a small percentage of coverage. there is more to the story than just the recession-the deficit is the single biggest thing affecting our economy, and he's growing it. did you see the CBO numbers on his budget, which includes his health care plan?

LMAO

Try and focus here mam. You said, "The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's."

ON THIS THREAD

and I submit the following proof of the complete opposite. Again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_h7iKQ3Xps

So why do we need a new thread?

that article is not exactly old info..and i did read your link. and i also read a few weeks back how unemployment rose to the same numbers with the stimulus plan as it was projected to without it. so, what exactly did all that proposed new spending accomplish job wise? nothing. but it sure added to our humongous deficit. so, i'd think in the end that it will do more harm than good. no job increase that they expected, no decrease in job losses, and a further drag overall due to more spending of money we DON'T HAVE.

???? Just google "obama health care swastika" It wasn't alot of people, but they were definitely there, and photographed. Here's two:

Jewish Groups Denounce Use of Nazi Images in Health Reform Debate
FOXNews - ‎Aug 7, 2009‎


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106158

Okay, I thought you were saying he was ignoring the recession (not the deficit).

Yes, I saw the CBO numbers when they first came out (it was very well publicized) and I've seen alot of numbers since, and the one that seems to have been settled upon is 1 trillion over 10 years.