They are not counting the stories on Geithner, Summers, Orszag, Romer, Bernake... these are his men/women. Their ideas go through him. You dont think there has been any cricticism of these folks. Look em up.

Geeshus. Are you guys for real?

What I said, was: Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world.

If you insist upon arguing, argue against what I said. Don't change the subject to something else.

Because when the right criticizes them the immediate response from the left is "show me where he said that." Doesn't count if not directly quoted by Obama ie even GOP Riot.

But on the other side Bush was responsible for everything and anyone that happened during his administration.

Meanwhile Carter thinks the Israeli treatment of Palestine is worse than Rawanda? Maybe he mispoke? LOL

Fact and opinion are not equal and the same, nor blindly interchangable.

If I say "The earth is flat", you have every right to challenge that assertion and ask me to post some empirical evidence that the earth is flat. Or you can post evidence that shows the earth is not flat.

However, posting another person's web blog, where that person says, "I think the earth is flat, too!" is not evidence that the earth is flat.

Try reading the other thread about "intellectual honesty" in discourse and debate.

Rumsfeld and Cheney took tons of heat.
Maybe more than Bush. Bush was portrayed
as being led along by these guys. And the God
of the markets, Alan Greenspan, has admitted he
misjudged the market's ability to handle itself.

Carter has always had a problem with Israel.
I think Jimmy Carter has very good intentions
on most domestic issues. His getting involved with
habitat for humanity was essential in keeping a
non-governmental charity moving along helping people
obtain homes while careful scrutinizing for their ability to pay.

I just disagree with him on some foreign policy.

Look at what Carter did directly after his presidency
compared to what Reagan did. It tells you a little bit
about both men.

except Obama's long time minister, Obama's staff who claimed unemployment wouldn't surpass 8% etc. etc.

Now explain to me what Carter gets and why he thinks Isreal is the worse violators of human rights in the world. You must agree as you seemed to hug his book like a Right Wing Christian hugs his bible.

I explained "what Carter gets" in the previous post. Here it is again:

"Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it" - that it's an incredibly complicated, multi-layered area of the world."

Obama - with his family history, having an understanding of Muslim culture - that helps him "get" the middle east, too. His speech in Cairo was broadly hailed in the middle east as he showed his understanding of area idiosyncrasies. He is intelligent and articulate regarding general middle eastern area concepts, and the middle east even points it out.

Carter, through the years of his Presidency and since, also has a strong and complex understanding of middle eastern issues.

You should probably stop assuming what other people think or agree to. Makes you look silly.

If you want to discuss the state of Isreal, and the best way to achieve middle eastern peace in it's various regions - go for it and open a different thread about it.

It has nothing to do with what I posted about Obama, and mentioned about Carter.

So he gets it but you don't agree with his view that Isreal is the worse violator of human rights in the world or you do? Very simple question. Your answer was a bit Sybil-like IMO

I don't care to get into a discussion regarding Isreal. That has nothing to do with what I posted originally about either Obama or Carter.

I categorize several US foreign statesmen as brilliant with a deep, obvious and/or exceptional understanding of particular countries, the local and locally international politics, their leaders, the personalities involved, and areas of foreign policy.

That doesn't mean I agree with all their foreign policy decisions, no, not at all.

Spoken in perfect Bill Clinton language. And it was a simple yes/no answer not meant to be a discussion.

Dell: I think Obamas' Cairo speech was terrific, well-received, showed a knowledge of the region, and moved the US back up in the eyes of the international stage.

Boy, that answers my Carter question perfectly.

Yes, I don't want to buy into the distraction of pulling off onto another topic.

You were the one who brought up Carter. As a person who gets it and when I try to point out what actually he 'gets' you want to consider it another topic. If you're comparing Obama's foreign policy finesse to Carter I think the beliefs Carter 'spewed' during that interview are very relative, scary and dangerous.

Yes, I brought up Carter, and in the original post I said why, and above I repeated why (twice) and it has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

No, I'm obviously not comparing Obama's foreign policy finesse to Carter. No, I'm not talking about Carter's beliefs.

You go right ahead

This is the most ridiculous post yet. How do you know what these people know? Because obama is a muslim he is well versed in Middle eastern tribal disputes? On Carter's watch radical Islam came to power in the Middle East. This is so stupid that I cant even believe that you wrote it. So Obama and Carter are smarter than everyone else when it comes to the Middle East? What exactly has Obama done except give a speech that the majority of which was most likely written by someone else? He can quote the "Holy"Koran. Big deal. Lets see how well he fixes all the issues over there especially when Israel bombs the **** out of Iran.

You said and I quote ""Obama has a strong interest in, and understanding of, the myriad of complexities involving the various countries in the middle east. Tribal relations, power struggles, economics, historic, religious, etc. Carter had (and has) the same. Both "get it"

I then pointed out what Carter 'gets' as you would say and I quoted his interview on hardball,

"CARTER: So the persecution of the Palestinians now, under the occupying territories—under the occupation forces—is one of the worst examples of human rights deprivation that I know. And I think it‘s—

SHUSTER: Even worse, though, than a place like Rwanda?

CARTER: Yes. I think—yes. You mean, now?

SHUSTER: Yes.

CARTER: Yes.

SHUSTER: The oppression now of the Israelis—of the Palestinians by the Israelis is worse than the situation in Africa like the oppression of Rwanda and the civil war?

CARTER: I‘m not going back into ancient history about Rwanda, but right now, the persecution of the Palestinians is one of the worst examples of human rights abuse I know, because the Palestinians—

SHUSTER: You‘re talking about right now, you‘re not talking about say, a few years ago.

CARTER: I‘m not talking about ancient history, no.

SHUSTER: Rwanda wasn‘t ancient history; it was just a few years ago.

CARTER: You can talk about Rwanda if you want to. I want to talk

about Palestine. What is being done to the Palestinians now is horrendous

in their own territory, by the occupying powers, which is Israel."

See how it fits together now? I'm not talking about what you may perceive or hope Carter's view on Isreal is or was after reading his books. I'm repeating what Carter said his view was and simply asking whether you agree?

So the Chinese and Russians and British and Italians and greeks and Indians and canadians and mexicans and Brazilians and Japanese and Dutch and Polish and Germans and other non muslim countries were all so impressed with Obama's speech they have moved us up the the World BCS rankings?

Reagan was 80 years old!!! What did you want him to do?
What exactly has Carter done? Anything positive still cant make up for the disastrous years he spent in office

Yes

Some of Carter's statements with regard to Israel and the Palestinians are truly unbelievable. His statements are outright shocking. I don't know how anybody who has any understanding of the situation over there could make such statments. Carter is either a fool or he is just a guy who hates Israel.

Israel has had no choice but to take the measures they have taken. Otherwise they would be facing suicide bombings every day. The measures they have taken have been pretty successful in terms of stopping suicide bombers. Their main security concern now is stopping all the rockets from being fired into Israel.

Now imagine someone who admires him for his foreign policy and furthermore equates him with Obama as if it's a good thing...

or both?

Well...go find a quote from some google.com who justifies your statement. I love all the sh*t I get for bringing up Bush as a reference, but Jimmy Carter is all of a sudden relevant?

I did and it came back Riot

try again..this time with meaning..

fyi..crazy ending to today..our favorite mustachio is looking to try out his moves at AP

And I find your answer stupidly moronic, narrow minded, fear-based, missing the point, and falling to the embarassing last resort of child-like personal insult just because someone holds an opinion different than you do.

I read and heard Obama's Cairo speech, I have paid attention to his previous comments and writings on the middle east over the past 2-3 years, and I am going by what he has said and demonstrated regarding his understanding of the middle east since he's been in the public eye.

I have read most of Carter's books and watched what happened when he was President (and no, I don't agree with everything that happened on his watch). But I sure as hell respect both these men's exceptional knowledge of the middle east.

That's how I have formed my opinion of "what these people know"

It doesn't agree with your opinion? Too bad. Get over it.

Oh geez glad I missed that? You going tomorrow? and that admire comment was solely made for Riot

Actually it is no but even if it is was yes what tangible difference will it make for the US?

It was festive, to be sure..

Skipping tomorrow, two in Sunday..one here and one at Belmont. You wouldn't consider Sunday, would you?..you right wing neo con whacko, would you?

I can only assume you don't have very strong ability to comprehend what you read?

I have never said I admired either Carter's or Obama's foreign policy.

Well..I think it is yes, and your version of tangible and mine may be different, but we'll see how the next few years play out and then talk

yea I'll try doing both. They have another buy in contest tomorrow so I'll make the trip

To quote someone else, "How do you know what these people know?" :p

I was wrong. This post is the most ridiculous.

Crappy weather tomorrow Rush.must be the anti-global warming forces causing trouble again..Good luck in the contest

Hell as long as we are aligned with israel even the Arabs which he smothered with love will still hate us. The funny thing is that even though all these other countries supposedly hated Bush what did they not do for us that they suddenly will now?

"Suddenly" ???....Who said that?

will you quit this and help me find some winners at hollywood?