Po-lease.

The last time I swung a baseball bat, I was hitting a baseball a few feet above the ground, and it was moving. The last time I swung a golf club, the ball was on the ground, and it was still. The only aches and pains I've had with golf is not being able to get-and-down everytime I find a trap.

Tiger's swing featured a locking motion on his left knee, which deteriorated over time and ultimately led to it basically crumbling. Implying that Tiger Woods took steroids is absolutely ridiculous, and there is simply no basis.

The PGA Tour drug tests too. Their version of "cheating" was implied when certain players clubs were believed to be playing with "super clubs" and so they began testing. Tiger's caddie was one of the first guys to bring in the clubs for testing.

It's a shame our society is so jaded that when someone comes along, someone who is smart, devoted and good at what they do, we immediately cry fowl.

Okay, sorry to bring this thread farther off topic.

1 more for u drugs

how bout runnig Dutrow's %'s for this GP meet run the win % and roi

then run a second set of numbers and and take out this one's for phil from the numbers

I can tell by the way you call races that you're on something...Nobody does that "clean"..

Redboard alert....it was Be Smart and I had her! :D

I take lots of drugs:

* Steroids to make it up the two flights of stairs from the fourth to the sixth floor (LAD doesn't have an elevator all the way to the top)

* I take an eye enhancer to help glow the colors the jockey silks during the race.

* I also take a drug which enables my voice to sound a few notches deeper. Otherwise, I sound like the guy on the Seinfeld episode who sounds like a girl (the high talker).

* I take an anti-fatigue drug to help deter heavy breathing from getting up out of my desk chair, and going to the stand, between every race.

There's nothing in society today that anyone can do well while being "clean" ... it's simply impossible!

Dutrow's lifetime record at Gulfstream Park prior to this yeas meet:

65-for-276 ($1.57 ROI)

Dutrow's record at GP this year:

7-for-36 ($1.71 ROI)


Yes, by taking away a 12/1 shot winner he trained as if it never happened .. you could push him below his avg mark. Who in the hell cares about an ROI when the sample size is just 36 races??? This is almost getting as dumb as bringing DWL's name into a thread about magical trainers.

I need a valium.

so why the big stink by beyer about dutrow in the origal drf piece and then no follow up on him only on wolfson - can't andy explain that dutrow is having a meet that matches his lifetime record at GP as a follow up piece?

kissy

For starters ... the guy has won 3 different Breeders Cup races in the last 4 years with horses he moved way up.

Here's Silver Train: http://www.drf.com/row/pps/silvertrain.pdf (7th beaten 13+ lengths in an N1X allowance in his final start before going to Dutrow. Less than 8 months later he wins the Breeders Cup Sprint.)

Here's Saint Liam: http://www.drf.com/row/pps/saintliam.pdf (6th by 7.75 lengths in an N2X alw in his final start pre Dutrow. He magically transforms into the 2005 Horse of the Year after a Breeders Cup Classic win as the favorite.

Here's Kip Deville: http://www.drf.com/row/pps/kipdeville.pdf (In his first start for Dutrow Jr. - he opens up a 15 length lead in a 14 horse field - getting his first six furlongs in an insane 1:08 3/5 going 9.5 furlongs! He stays on for 2nd at 28/1 odds. Future Breeders Cup Mile winner. 2nd in the '08 Mile as well)

Oh yeah, I'm going to assume Beyer made a big stink about Dutrow in the "origal" piece because a toad named This One's For Phil ran unexplainably fast in his first start for Dutrow.

I know he's employed and all now ... but can someone please page BTW and tell him to come by again and mock me for answering all your questions.

That's fine, it's still a downright miserable analogy to the subject at hand.

take a look at this years GP races show me out of the 36 races where there are multiple abnormal results

How bout the other trainers at GP who have a higher % than dutrow this meet?


Angel Penna is 36% , what is his all time % at Gp , shouldn't there be an article about him as well?

what is your point Marty?

Do you think Dutrow is clean and all his move ups are easily explained?

i don't know if he is clean or not , i don't know if any trainers are clean or not


but why no mention of how he is having a meet that is by no means any different than he has had in the past?

Are the PGA testing Travis? I don't remember them going towards testing. I do remember Tiger in 2005 coming out and saying he was pro drug testing if the PGA was to adopt it.

What we do know is Gary Player was chastised by some for suggesting he knew that atleast 10% of players were using steroids, I really don't know why it would be such a big surprise if golf had similar problems to other sports, I am just being realistic, that it is somewhat unrealistic(no intention to rhyme here) that only one sport would remain prestine when most others have already been tainted.

As long as you arent a 'close' talker

However the race in question isnt nearly like what has gone on now. Onion was a pretty good horse (set a track record for 6 1/2 furlongs 11 days before when horses used to race alot) who got an uncontested lead and held off Secretariat in the stretch. The story was that Secretariat was not right and was vulnerable not that Onion had freaked out. HAJ told me he wasnt even going to run in the Whitney until he saw Secretariat work poorly that week. (Poorly for him was 1/2 in 48 and change) Big difference.

I always knew you were a juicer. No one can call races like that on crawfish and water alone.

There is less than zero chance that the PGA would call a positive test on Woods regardless of what they found in his tests. I mean does anyone really think they wouldnt squash a bad test for Tiger?

they would do that Chuck , but ,it would leak out by someone if he ever tested positive and he would retire "to spend time with the family"

No chance. It would be squashed and the person who leaked it would get sued and eventually take a package and go away.

Probably not, U.S track covered up positive tests.
Bud Selig had his head buried in sand, there is no doubt he knew what was going on in baseball and allowed it to carry on until token testing was mandated. I don't know if Tiger is using anything to enhance his game, I really hope he is the exception, but when one examines other superstars in other sports, Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemons just to name 3 off the top of my head, it's hard not to atleast wonder. Is he?

i would be shocked if he is using something , i don't think it can help with the chipping and putting

If he didn't he would certainly stand alone, there are just so many that do now. Heck even Royce Gracie was caught using HGH when he fought Sakurabi the second time. It's everywhere, you don't have to look under a haystack to find a news article about athletes on steriods.

The best example of undetected steroid use or looking the other way is the NFL. The standard they have is similar to horse racing. If they put a policy in and do as little as possible to enforce it, only the morons will test positive and they can use those guys as examples of how well their testing works.

The difference between the NFL and MLB is that the NFL has a much better grasp of PR and strategic planning. To think that the vast majority of NFL players are 100% clean is ludicrous

The same was once said about steroids and pitchers, would make them too muscle bound. Oops....

Tiger is much bigger than he was a few years ago. His arms are huge, they werent always. Not that I am making an implication or anything.....

The PGA Tour is testing, and as a matter of fact, Tiger was even tested during his time off after his surgery this past year.

In the other post, where you talked about being able to hit the ball further without more effort ,making you a better golfer...well, no offense, but thats just insane.

Top 5 players in driving distance stats so far in 2009

1. Bubba Watson
2. Gary Woodland
3. Scott Piercy
4. Robert Garrigus
5. Chris Couch

those same guys and their rank on the money list

Bubba - 36
Woodland - 158 :rolleyes:
Piercy - 33
Garrigus - 82
Couch - 187:rolleyes:

Hitting it long, with or without less effort, doesn't do anything to make anyone a better player. If you can't get the ball up and down from inside 120 yards in 2 shots a great majority of the time, you ain't sh*t on the PGA Tour.

Drive for show PUTT FOR DOUGH....

BEOTCH

I think the strength that you would get would help in your stamina and training more than anything. Train harder, get fitter, make fewer mistakes when tired. is this a logical theory?

Maybe, but poll all the players on the Tour and ask them when they make more mistakes, when they are physically tired or mentally tired. My educated guess says a GREAT majority of them say mentally tired. Tigers biggest advantage isnt his physical strength that he has, its his mental strength that makes him head and shoulders above the rest.

Without Dala's expert pyschoanalysis i dont know how deep we can delve into this but isnt being physically tired a direct factor for being mentally tired? I cant see how a player couldnt improve by being stronger. It wont make a bad player good but may certainly give him an advantage later in tournaments.

I'll use this as an example, if a player is ranked 100 - 200 in the world rankings and is looking for an edge in breaking into the top 50 in rankings, if someone came up to them and said I can guarantee you another 15-20 yds in distance, that isn't going to improve your game? 15-20 yds on approach shots to the green can mean the difference from using a wedge to using an iron. You may disagree but without getting into a golf discussion this evening, I say distance does matter, is it the only variable in golf, obcourse not but it does come in play in golf. Just as putting, course Mgt..ect...

That's what I don't understand. People still will deny it is not possible.:zz:

I see what you're saying, and yes there is a direct correlation (google it Scavs) linking the two. I think there have been plenty of guys through the years that have gotten stronger and their games gone downhill. Look how bad Duval got when he lost a ton of weight and got much fitter. People don't realize how much of an effect that has on your swing. Look at how gradual Tigers build has changed. It wasn't a one or even two year deal...nothing was sudden at all, very gradual.

Being fitter doesnt always improve a golfer, especially if it drastically changes the dynamics of your swing. I lost 50lbs between ages 20-22. Once I lost that weight, it took me quite a while to get used to swinging completely different than I was used to.

Do me a favor. Go back to the mid 1980s and find out what the average driving distance was for PGA Pros then and check the average driving distance now. Then, checking the average scoring average then vs now.

EVERYONE is hitting it further, but scoring averages arent going down. If hitting it further makes you better, then scoring averages should be plummeting....but they arent.

The problem with your argument is Golf Courses are longer now, it is not an accurate representation to use that data.

Anyone remember Augusta National after 97 will know where the term 'Tiger proofing" came from. Imagine the scores now if they left the course the way it was then.