He was outstanding (possible Pro-Bowl) until he got his ankle messed up.....He will improve, at least he better...He is pinpoint short wise but is not accurate after 20 yards

;):confused:

At what point in the season was he outstanding or even remotely pro bowl? :confused:

I agree that there were points in the season where he looked to be adequate but never did i confuse him for being good let alone outstanding.

Warner is 37, not much of a future with him, Palmer has serious elbow issues, Brady has the knee injury that may be worse than we know, He can be as good as Pennington with experience, ditto Delhomme, is better than Bulger at this point, is as good as Schaub.

What is your deal with Hill? Why do you think he is any good?

He is the epitome of a system QB that is successful because of what he has around him. True...he has to make the throws. But reads? Most of the time, he is given two reads max and goes through maybe one progression. Anything beyond that and he gets confused and then is sacked. But how hard is it throwing a three yard inside slant to welker? How hard is it throwing to Randy Moss?

How many times have we seen these types? AJ Feely come to mind? How about Steve Bono? Todd Bauman?

Perhaps im being too tough on him. We will see. He did his job this year and certainly his success was beyond anyone's expectations.

As for Hill, I dont think he is that good. Thats my point. Look at what he did with that line and that receiving corps. Inject Cassell into the niners this year and you think he could have done any better?

You cant compare him to those othr guys simply because he has never played a meaningful minute before this year. Let me say once more, there is no harder scenario that I can think of than a guy that has NO experience unexpectedly coming in to replace one of the all time greats on a high profile team and playing well. I can not think of a similar possible scenario in sports. Obviously breaking in with NE has some advantages but no one calls out Joe Montana and Steve Young for being system QB's with great receivers. The only numbers we have on the guy are pretty damn good and logically he will improve as he plays. No one said he was the savior but in football how many guys can really make that claim?

In Montana's defense, he won two superbowls without Jerry Rice or John Taylor but i get your point.

Feely had no experience in Philly, had a great streak and cashed in and flubbed. Same with Bauman in Minnesota.

He may very well have a solid career. I agree that he is not a savior.

My point is that teams dont pay 12 million dollars and a first round draft pick for a guy to manage games. For that bounty, they want a QB that makes plays. They want a guy they can build an offense around.

Disagree... I think Welker is very much a difference maker. I'd take him on my mythical team in a heartbeat.

Let me ask you this, phins fan- would you rather have Pennington or Cassell taking snaps for your team next year? For my money, it's Pennington in a heartbeat.

Pennington but ask me that in a year I may have a different answer. Cassell had a better season than Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco who are far better comparisons. Welker is more of a product of the "system" than the QB. He is still mostly a slot receiver and was hardly a difference maker with Miami though they did screw up in letting him go.

Joe Flacco is and will be better than Matt Cassell. Cassell has been in the system for four years and he has had real game experience prior to this year. Flacco was throwing the ball to an 85 year old receiver and one of the ten guys named Mark Clayton that float around the NFL and he did it behind a line that wasnt nearly as good as New England's.

Did he have a better season than those guys? He is home and those guys are in the playoffs. How did he have a better season? Again, inject him into baltimore or atlanta and tell me what he would have done...even with his 4 year advantage in experience.

Yeah he has an experience advantage.....holding clipboards. Flacco and Ryan did not have better seasons than Cassell. Making the playoffs may have a little more to do with the Ravens defense and Altantas division than the play of the QB's. Your arguemnets are actually getting more bizzare. Cassell has an experience edge with real game experience? Yeah those 60 passes the last 7 years were the perfect prep.

Atlanta's division? The NFC South is a million times better than the AFC East, Chuck.. It's the best division in the league.

based upon what measure?

Come on. The last-place team is 8-8 and the four teams are ranked 6, 9, 12 and 13 by FO. How could the NFC South possibly be seen as a benign division? You're telling me there's a last-place team that's even close to as good as the Saints? How about a second-to-last place team?

The Saints have huge problems on defense and Tampa has huge issues on offense. THey played the NFC North and AFC West this year. Atlanta is a mirage and Tampa lost to Oakland in a playoff clinching game. You wanna believe that this division is a million times better than the AFC East fine. But Cassel still had a better year than Ryan.

Cassell had a better year than Ryan because Ryan had a very good running game. Which in turn might have helped in in the passing game. Nonetheless, thats sort of unfair.

All this is really hard.

Where would people have put Derek Anderson two years ago?

I think a guy that derserves much more credit than he is getting
is Rogers. Especially after I saw him absolutely crush a defensive
back after an interception. No really, no running game, a bad o-line,
and I thought the guy did a heck of a good job seeing that he was
running for his life or on his back most of the season.

Bills never could have afforded Shanahan anyways. Would take him in a heartbeat but Ralph won't pay his head coaches more than $1-1.5 million a year and for that price you are only going to get the Dick Jauron/Mike Mularkey/Gregg Williams/Wade Phillips types. Schottenheimer would have been the only chance since he played his whole career for the Bills but I'm sure even he would have wanted $3 million a year.

Bills were an awful, awful team last year (30th offense, 31st defense) that played way over their heads to go 7-9 in a remarkable coaching job that Jauron never got enough credit for. This year they were about a 7-9 team (25th offense, 14th defense) that finished with exactly the record they should have. They are still young and have no important guys hitting free agency so can bring back the core, add some free agents, add some draft picks, and hope the players (and OC) can mature. Improve to top 20 in offense next year and top 10 in defense and it could be a solid 10 win season. A complete overhaul on such a young team would be foolish. If they were an aging team about to lose all their top players to free agency (like they were when Mularkey got canned), then it would make sense to start over.

How is that any more valid than saying the stats the QB put up had more to do with the supporting cast and the system in which he was throwing? What is bizarre about that?

You discount experience of being in the League. Learning a system. Practice. Serving as an understudy to arguably the best QB in the last 10 years. Is this not valuable? Would that not make him more prepared for the NFL than a rookie coming from Delaware???????

What is bizarre about that?

You made a ridiclous statement that Flacco and Ryan somehow had more sucessful season because their teams made the playoffs.

Playing anywhere is better experience than practice. This guy never played an important snap in college or the pros before this year. Think about that. Never played an important snap ever in his career. Serving as an understudy is nice but why didnt Dan Marino or Dan Fouts or so many other great QB's understudies come in an play as well as Cassel. The problem is that you want to discredit the guys performance because he played with other good players instead of giving the guy credit for what he DID do despite all the obstacles he had. I am not an NFL scout or coach so I will judge him on what he has done which was play at a high level for a player totally lacking in game experience and improving throughout the season. There was a reason the coach stuck with him instead of bringing in retreads.

So its ridiculous to judge a QB's performance by the success of his team? LOL. How else should we judge them? By stats? You saying that is ridiculous is ridiculous.

I gave him credit for what he did...just not as much credit as you do. The coach saw talent...and a cheap backup. Salary cap management has been vital to this team's success. Why would Belichick/Pioli spend money on a retread when their QB was an iron man and in the prime of his career? A backup with four years of experience and 525k against your cap? He was perfect. Thats why they kept him around...not because he was some kind of diamond in the rough.

If I implied that he had a bad season, it wasnt my intention. I agree...he had a very good season and certainly beyond anyone's expectations. It is certainly arguable that he had a season just as good or better than the guys i named and that argument is valid. I just dont agree thats all.

He may very well go on to be a successful QB. I am just not of the opinion that will happen. Time will tell.

Your argument doesn't hold much, the Falcons had the 2nd ranked rushing game in the league, but the Patriots had the 6th. The difference is marginal at best, only 10 yds/game more:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...2&d-447263-n=1

The bottom line is the Falcons relied heavily on the ground game
to protect Ryan. And they did a damn good job of it. The Falcons
are a smash mouth running team get in 2nd or 3rd and short. The Patriots
did not play this type of game.

If there's anyone who deserves to complain, it's TJ. He carried the offense all season, and he's one of the hardest workers in the league. He was one of the few Jets who didn't quit during the 4-12 season. I respect the hell out of the dude. And somebody had to say it.

Plus, this wasn't just a heat of the moment thing. It was a few days later, so this must have been festering. There's probably a lot we don't know about what really went on with this team this year.

I have no problem with his comments and think it is ridiculous that the media is making such a big deal out of it. It has to be frustrating as hell to watch your football team collapse by poor play from a player that is immune to benching. And who exactly is he supposed to vent to? They don't have a head coach. If anything this is a smart move, the more people that speak up against Bret publicly the less likely he will be back next year. Privately airing your grievances with the GM isn't going to make one bit of difference.

Of course, as a Bills fan I'd much rather see them kiss and make up and Bret come back next year to doom another Jets season and push them another year back towards rebuilding. Or even better, the GM ship Jones out of town and try and make Leon Washington their feature back.

I don't understand what managements desire to have Brett Favre come back is (they already sold all the jerseys). But do you think that there is a contigency plan in place?
Personally I can't see him coming back. His legacy definitely took a bit of a hit at the end here (granted there seems to be an injury involved). Is he going to want to rehab this injury to the point to get back into football shape? Is he going to want to learn a whole new scheme/playbook (assuming the schottenhiemer gets fired)? He has been an untouchable icon most of his career, now he is starting to take negative shots from fans, media and worst of all his teamates. Will he realize that it will get much tougher next season. They blew an 8-3 start with an easy schedule ahead of them. Next year they have to play the AFC/NFC south. Those teams won 33 more games combined than the AFC/NFC west, teams the Jets played this year. Does he really want to be in New York?
I just don't see the positives for him/the Jets (which makes managements desire even more boggling). Is it just about the PSL's? There many Jets fans want Favre out of here anyway. Maybe if they upgrade the reciever position and open the playbook up for brett he's worth a flier for one more year. But even that, he will be a year older and coming off arm surgery. Will he even be able to air it out if needed.
Add all of this together and I don't think there's any chance on him coming back next year.

TJ killed it this year, which is why it's even more mind boggling to me they only gave him the ball 10 times in the season finale. Unfortunately he's hitting the 30 year old wall... hopefully for him he has a couple good seasons left.

Phil, TJ is a relatively lightly used 30-year-old. He's only been a starter for like five seasons. At this point in his career, Curtis Martin had about 500 more carries than TJ does, and he lasted 3-4 more seasons in top form. Plus, TJ is in tremendous shape and like Curtis, he's more of a grinder than a burner, so I think he's got a few more good seasons in him.

Well...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3809444


29 mil of the salary cap will go to the two main QB's on that team. Not sure amazing is the word I'm looking for, but I'll use it.

looks like i have some words to eat. Cannon and phl were right.

How about incredible Declan?

I was with you on this one Dala. That's an AWFULLY high amount of $$ to be giving someone that will be riding pine. I guess they have it in mind that it's only for 1 year, and if Brady isn't fully recovered, (which history says he wont be) it's a justified move.

Look for Phil and I to replace Keyshawn and Emmitt next season on NFL countdown...

TJ almost took care of Key for you today. Got alittle heated. They'd (Key and Emmit) be on the boat I'd send to analyst/expert hell, with Hoge wearing the captain's hat.

Expected nothing short of this, esp with how bad Kolb looked when given his chance to prove his worth. (preseason, 2nd half against the RAVENS, and thats pretty much it :D)

Note the paragraph though about the "unemotional" decisions. They've made moves like this before. Moves that I questioned at the time, but always seem to work out in teh best interest of the team, both short and long term. I'm done second guessing these guys.

Won't happen. Lil Wayne just said so on 1st and 10... $HIT :rolleyes: