Bravo! I think this is the book I read in my freshman year at Marlboro College. It's not that big, so should be easy enough to get through.(I think I only read parts of it, as I was in another world at college that first semester, getting constant bj's, party after party with home grown Afghanistan so abundant you didn't need any money)

I should be ashamed.

You were getting BJ's from Afghanistan's?

btw, before 9-11, the deadliest terrorist attack ever on u.s. soil was the bombing in oklahoma city. by a christian. tim mcveigh was raised a roman catholic.

Yeah...I'm sure McVeigh had Communion just before he drove the truck to the building......weak:eek:

and like i said above...people will pounce on any and every 'fact' that backs up their beliefs, while completely dismssing anything that doesn't-and you just completely dismissed the fact, that until 9-11, the single deadliest terror attack on american soil was by an american and a christian-not a muslim. and that, dear sir, is what's really weak.

McVeigh wasn't a practicing Catholic,imo.....so he was essentially faithless.
But he was an American..so that means you're right.

I didn't ignore it, I just don't think that it's the answer to the question.
But thanks for dropping by.....

The attack in Okalahoma might have been the most deadly , but its not like the crazy Muslims hadnt tried to blow up the Trade Center before , I think it was targeted twice that I recall and they attacked the USS Cole and our Embassy , which was all a pre-cursur to the big one when they finally got the job done in 2001. Im not saying that other people of other faiths dont blow stuff up but right now in the world most of the violence that is being commited , is being commited by radical Muslims. Ill re-state that not all Muslims are doing it but all Muslims are culpable for what they let go on from the government right down to the farmers , the radicals have installed so much fear that even their own people wont make a stand and that is sad.

i had a couple of points really...one is that a person will do what they will regardless of religion.
another point is that perception is reality to most. there are all sorts of fringe groups who 'believe' different things, but what it all boils down to is that they are criminals who seek to rationalize what they do.
terrorists don't commit crimes of terror for god, they use that to excuse it. if they didn't believe in god, they'd still blow crap up everyday.
my other point was, people didn't automatically make a correlation between mcveigh and his religion, but people automatically make that connection when it's a muslim.
i don't recall this sort of mentality when it was the ira vs the brits.

I'm impressed you remember :p

"Muslims" did not try to blow up the Trade Center before.

"Terrorists" tried to blow up the Trade Center before.

Sorry, those words simply are not equivalent.

:tro:

I just wanted to take this opportunity to point out one more thing that you are wrong about in this thread.
The entire premise for this thread is obvioulsy completely nonsensical, but given that Hossy, Spencer, and now Danzig, have done a fine job of taking up the banner of rational thought against you, we don't ALL really need to pile on you.
So, you can rest assured that you are completely wrong in your statement here. They are speaking for more than just themselves.

Oh really , uhm what faith were the bombers? They were Muslim look it up , dude they were warning us way before 911 , that they were going to drop those buildings one way or another.

Dude, you have completely missed the point.

Let's see ... literal ... literal ...

False: All blonde women are dumb.
False: Christianity is the most common religion in the world.
False: All Christians are racists.
False: All Muslims are terrorists.

I will take the time now to interject a little meeting shown on C-Span last night involving American Muslim Leaders asking Obama to please reign in Israel when he gets into office. They went on and on about Israel this and that, and when asked about Hamas and the role they should play to end the current conflict they had nothing to say.

Then when asked about their ties with illegal funds sent to terrorist organizations and what the investigation yielded they left the stage. It was quite revealing. I certainly hope these guys dont speak for the majority of Muslims in the US.

American Muslim Task Force

Council on American-Islamic Relations

might have to have a look at these two groups.

Do you think those men speak for 6-8 million US citizens?

well...i do know NOW (for example) doesn't speak for me...

Probably not.
But who does then?

These are fairly large vocal political Muslim groups.
Where are the counter point groups?
There are plenty of protests in Israel by Israelis concerning
the bombing. Its called a legitimate Democracy.

I wonder what happens with protests against Hamas in Gaza?
I will answer. They kill your members and shove you
over to the West Bank.

I wonder why they don't ask President Bush to do it before he leaves office

:rolleyes:

Don't hold back there Coach :D

Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel :p

Dont make me out to be that simple ok, I was just stating a fact , you can believe it was just people who happen to be Muslim that tried for years to blow up the World Trade Center and happen to blow up our ship , and they also just happen to be Muslims that have blown up our Embassies and hikacked our planes and killed hundreds of thousands of people.
There is a direct correlation to people of the Muslim faith and terrorism it cant be denied , Im not saying all Muslims are terrorists but it sure doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the theme to most of the crap that is going on in the world.

Well, I agree very rarely with TIMM, or HONU. On this subject, they happen to be correct. For example, Zig talks about a Christian she knows that uses the "N" word. He's not doing that for religious reasons. He's not doing that in an effort to follow the teachings of his prophet. He's doing it because he's a racist. His prophet encourages him to not follow his racist views. Right? If not for Christianity, he may very well have used violence against races he doesn't like. Now, compare this to the Muslims that do things we don't agree with. Are they following their prophet's teachings when they blow stuff up, and kill people? Yes, they are following his teachings. For some reason people refuse to believe that. They don't do these acts despite what their prophet says. They do it directly because of what their prophet said. You can say I blanket people all you want, but this is the prophet of their religion. Not some side figure that they can take or leave. If you're a Muslim, then you have a killer for a prophet. He was violent. His teachings are violent. We may get lucky, and some Muslims may refuse to follow their prophet's teachings. Fact is, these terrorists are not disobeying their prophet when they kill innocent people that aren't fellow Muslims. When Christians do these bad things you described, they aren't doing it to satisfy their prophet. It's not done for religious reasons. That's simply not the case when Muslims kill innocent people. I understand the KUM-BA-YA stuff on here, but it's based on ignorance of Islam. Zig, that prophet taught them to convert you to Islam. If you refuse, he taught them to kill you. Enough with the paddy-cake bullsht. If someone chooses to follow that Prophet, then they choose to follow a very violent individual. Read what he said. Who would follow that guy? How can you call yourself peace-loving when your prophet taught you to kill non-believers? How can you have respect for women when your prophet tells you to treat them as your farm animals are treated? Sorry, I don't get that. Your views on this subject are a deep stretch. Ours are based on unfortunate facts that you refuse to accept.

Scuds , c'mere Ima kiss you :{>: :)

maybe the problem is monotheism. or just theism.

in my lifetime, i've seen catholics and protestants commit atrocities against one another in ireland, hindu's and muslims slaughter each other in india, serbian christians commit genocide against innocent muslim bosnian's, and as you point out muslim's committing acts of mass murder against civilian's here in the u.s.

the one thing they all had in common is a belief in the one true god.

if we're looking for the commonality, let's not stop with a specific set of beliefs.

I agree with everything you say , all those things are true , and us the Americans stepped in on the genocide being committed against the Bosnians even if the world didnt like it. But am I so blind I dont see current trend of terroism throughout the world? , no I see it ,the Catholics and Protestants have been killing each other until recently when I guess they finally realized that not everyone has to believe what YOU believe or they just got tired of killing each other . I agree that most faiths are driven to the point that some people will kill because they feel that is what is right , but if you look at the world TODAY it is the Muslims that are creating and carrying out the most horrific crimes against humanity , they dont care if they kill women and children as long as they blow something up.
What I dont get is how they feel like the world wants them to change how they live their lives , is it because we want them to respect women and children? To me they can worship Allah and their women can choose to be subserviant unto the men , they can deny equaility all they want but when they start killing people in mass because their faith tells them its ok then I have a problem.
It is a very simple culture of the Muslim faith , if you believe , when u die u get a gabillion virgins then its worth dying for if you have no chance of ever having a life , if you have a life but your government and country offer you no hope for a better life then the reward is , well as it seems better than what they have now.

The problem is what that prophet taught them: 1) Kill those that won't accept Islam as their religion, and 2) kill those that try to leave Islam.....That's a big giant problem. The solution isn't to be found by looking for flaws in Christianity. I have no problem with anyone doing that, but it doesn't help change the much bigger problems that Islam has to offer the 3/4 of the world that isn't Muslim.

No I dont think its possible....... I believe that the Muslims who are killing peope all over the globe take what they have been told and read as verbatim.

What is a Muslim?

and what does Dimmothy McVeigh have to do with them?

:rolleyes:

if that was actually the core problem we'd never have experienced murder in the name of god before muslim extremism.

the problem isn't muslim.

They care deeply about Muslim women and children who get killed by Non-Muslims. They didn't care when Hamas was shooting rockets in to Israel. They don't care about 9 Jews getting killed by those rockets. They care a whoooooole lot about the loss of Muslim life that took place when Israel finally bombed Hamas compounds in Gaza. Muslims care a great deal about other Muslims, and not a whole lot about anyone else.

Dude everyone knows that Muslims are not the only faith to have commited crimes against humanity .......We are talking about right now , what is going on in the world today , if it were Catholics or Jews or Protestants commiting these horrific acts I would be just as loud about it. But it isnt , it is the people of this faith (not all of them) but alot of them in the Middle East and they dont care if you die while they try and get their message thru.
I was living in Hawaii when the attack on the WTC happened and the news got to me about 6 am Hawaii time , when I turned on the T.V. I seen where the first building had been crashed into and then the second and then they said a plane had hit the Pentagon and another had went down in Pa. , but they didnt say where. My first thought was my mom who worked for the DOD and happened to be in Pitt. that day in the federal building . My second thought was because they gave no information was that maybe they had attacked Pitt. and that my mom could be in danger . You will never know how scared I was until I could get ahold of her , and fianally I did , after 2 whole city blocks around the federal building had been evacuated.

So yes to me in this day and age , at least the last 30 years of my life , it has been radical Muslims who have carried out the most crimes against man , they have hijacked our planes , they have tried to blow up our ships and most of all they kill their own without blinking an eye , so to me they are saying they dont care who dies just as long as they get a few Infidels.

Uh, anybody can say they are killing in the name of God, but when Muslims kill (in the name of God,) they are the ones who are in line with their prophet's own teachings. That's the point that people want to ignore. Christians who kill in the name of God aren't doing it to satisfy their prophet. I have a brother who is heavily into Christianity. I have heard a lot of crap from him, but I have never heard him say he wants to kill for Jesus. I just don't think it's going to happen. If he did, it wouldn't be because of what his prophet taught.

it's weird to me that so few seem to get this.

it's not that i think murder would disappear if everyone stopped imagining invisible giants were so insecure they needed our constant attention and that we had to kill other people who believed in slightly different invisible giants.

i'm positive we'd still find plenty of reasons to kill each other even if we stopped the whole invisible giant paradigm.

but why do people think it's a belief in THAT invisible giant that's the problem?

as opposed to the problem being that some people are just ass holes? and they'd still be ass holes no matter which invisible giant they believed in?

What if the invisible giant is Andre?

we should burn at the stake all his believer's.

Well, we can play whatever game you want (to get around the fact that one particular religion believes in killing 1)nonbelievers, and 2)those who want to stop believing,) but I don't believe these people are born ass holes. I believe they are born into an ass-hole religion. If someone seeks this religion out, then they were an ass-hole to begin with. If a woman were to convert to it, they would surely be masochistic.