Consider the source. But seriously the races that she won are relatively minor events compared to American classic races. BB's competition isnt very strong in comparison to previous years but Z isnt exactly beating up on Bayakoa and lady's Secret.

I guess everyone figured it was a done deal. Of course Scavs would have you think the Aga Khan timed the announcement to disrupt the news of Curlins big between races work.

Are you now an employee of the British govt? Like James Bond?

I don't know enough about thbis sport but I thought two year olds typically race a lot less than three year olds? Am I wrong on that assumption?

Just call me 00-screwed

Wait....I'm the source. For good or for bad, I am glad to be recognized the source of something :)

Congrats!:tro:

That assumption has nothing to do with your statement and that was that you can compare who had the better season by number of grade ones. By that logic, Vineyard Haven has had a better season than Commentator. And according to your logic, the BC Juvenile Fillies carries no more weight than the BC Classic since both are grade ones. All grade ones aren't created equal. Heatseeker won the grade two Californian, beating Tiago and Surf Cat with a 109 Beyer. Both of those horses are multiple graded stakes winners in open company. Are you seriously going to argue that Big Brown beating Coal Play and Cool Coal Man in the Haskell (106) or beating Macho Again and Ichabad Crane in the Preakness (100) or beating Smooth Air and Tomacito in the Florida Derby (106) mean more simply because they were grade ones? Seriously?

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

I can't believe some of the comments I am reading, but I guess I shouldn't be shocked. Like either horse or not, here, in this forum, as fans -- we would have all liked to see Curlin and Big Brown (both fit, liking the track, healthy, etc.). So BB got hurt and won't race. Disappointed, pissed off, whatever. OK, I get that.

Conspiracy, accusations coming from timing of a few hours, pictures, grassy knowlls and magic bullets -- and more opportunities to criticize connections; sure, that really has credibility.

I still don't know whether or not Curlin is going, and I would think Jackson is going to rely on Team Asmussen, Richard Mandella, and whoever else he designates. I don't know. If he's good to go, I'd like to see him. If not, so be it. The BC days will be what they will be. I guess if you don't like them enough, dislike them, hate them, whatever, you don't have to play. Turn the page.

Eric

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

That's it! Thanks! I just looked it up and I guess he was a 3-1 second favorite.

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

But not every horse qualifies for a Grade 1? Are there better races that aren't Grade 1? Of course. Are there faster horses in non Grade 1 races? Not proportionately.

So then you are sticking with he's had the best year because he's won the most grade ones. No matter the actual quality that was in those races.

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

There's a picture of a hoof on the DRF Home page, assuming its Big Brown's, it doesn't look good.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/99020.html

too bad about his foot. also too bad that they won't bring him back at four since they can't make the classic this year.

So then you believe Stardom Bound and Vineyard Haven have both had better years than Commentator? If Stardom Bound wins the BC Juv Fillies and Zenyatta loses the Distaff, they've had an equal year because they've got the same number of grade ones? Or she's had a better one than Proud Spell and her two grade ones? Or Indian Blessing and her two grade ones? Hell, let's take it further. If Stardom Bound wins her third grade one in the BC, she will have had a better single season than Commentator has had a CAREER cause he's only won two grade ones in his career. She would be the equal of Medaglia d' Oro and his three grade one wins in his career. She'd pass Smarty Jones and his two. She'd equal Afleet Alex and his three. One more and she's had as good a career as Ghostzapper.

Give it up. It's not worth defending him, for one you won't win the argument and two there is no definitive answer.

Just so you know, for my money, Big Brown is HOY unless Curlin wins the BC or if Curlin doesn't, then Zenyatta has a chance to steal it with a dominating Distaff or even moreso with a Classic win.

yeah, that is like ripping your toe nail off...No conspircy here :)

Not true... they just painted the foot to look like that.. ;)

I will humbly bow out of this argument since it will only go back and forth. You make excellent points. For my money, Big Brown did have the best year in horse racing in 2008 as detailed earlier. I stand by it.

I figured Big Brown could only have won HOY had he won the BCC. Interesting to know he is still in the running. Even if he cannot run.

Like I said, "assuming that's Big Brown's hoof" :)

And that's perfectly fine. I won't argue that opinion even if I disagree with it. My problem came with you stating it as fact and using number of grade ones as a way of backing that fact up.

For me, 90% of the time, I'll go with a horse that distinguishes him or herself in races open to all competition over one that does so in races that are closed off to most of the competition.

You are right to dispute me saying "fact." That was kind of reckless on my part. I meant it more as an exclamtion point, but agree I shouldn't have misused the word as it is only my fact and not the view of everyone else.

I hear Curlin and Big Brown will have a filly screwing contest next year. First one to get 10 laid wins

Big Brown was the favorite. Elysium Fields was second choice and got injured during the race I believe.

It was pretty much a given that she was done, in 7 starts she's pretty much cemented herself as one of the best fillies of the past 20+ years. not much else for her to do..

Dehydration I think. . .

You're probably right, but then what's sidelined him since?

Not sure - "Severely Overheated, 'Strained Himself'" according to Illman's blog. . .

I think arguing about Big Brown's Beyer #'s from the FL Derby and KY Derby, and using those #'s to talk about what kind of horse he is, whether or not the race was a good one or not, etc. -- is every entertaining to say the least.

Now that Curlin's work is over, I would suspect that if he doesn't go, it would excusively be because the connections saw Casino Drive's race. LOL.

Eric

May have had a dehydrated tendon or dehydrated cannon bone...

OK so I don't have the guts to start this question as a new thread so I'm hoping someonce can answer but still stays low on the radar in case it is an incredibly stupid one.


Has there ever been a high profile race horse that retired to stud (even briefly), and then came back to legitimately race again?

The winner of the 3rd BC Classic, Skywalker, did.

Precisionist did.
George Washington.

Thanks!

OK so that wasn't too crazy of a question. Was that considered an interesting footnote to his story back then?

Seabiscuit? While he was recovering from his bowed tendon, he covered mares at his owner's ranch, then came back and won the Santa Anita H.

In more recent times, one of my favorites Silveyville, winner of the G1 Hollywood Derby at 3 in 1981. For a couple of years in the latter part of his career, he would serve his mares in the spring, then come back to racing in the fall, going back to the farm after a couple of races at Santa Anita in the winter. The last year he ran, when he was 8, he won a G3 in January, then came back in late summer to run third in the Carleton F. Burke (G2) at Oak Tree and 2nd in the Citation H (G3) at Hollywood.

Had George Washington not broken down last year, would he have most likely gone back to stud?