Not entirely. I don't want anyone's personal interpretation of religion to be imposed on others. This country was founded on Freedom of Religion and it should stay that way.

She will tie him in knots...she's from Frisco!

And I'll take the pot with a VHS cassette of Fried Green Tomatoes and Hickory Hill Hoff after a weekend of Saratoga and High Life.

I live in Vermont where we have gay marriages(and divorces). I'm fine with civil unions for gays, but not marriage

Recently, I inquired at my local Episcopal church, wether my girlfriend and I could get married in the eyes of God, but not in the view of the U.S. government. The answer was yes, we could have the religious ceremony, but not file papers with the "authorities". My point is they can be seen as two separate things, and though I'm fine with homosexuality, I don't think they should be married. I believe marriage is a religious-cultural construct that exists in order to keep the family unit together.

Freedom from STATE Religion was the idea(England was the model) Free exchange of open thought isn't infringing on the Halls of Govt.

Jesus is the biggest proponent of welfare in all of history, yet the religious right chooses to ignore that while using selective sections of the Bible to try and impose their personal agendas on the masses.

Okay...

I cant mess with that. :wf

Watch it sniperr...

Timmi steals lines from foxnews and takes viagra and lies about it.

Not correct! The Bible says if you don't work you don't eat, and readily provides that widows and orphans be taken care of by church leadership. Please give me the scorecard on who's in the RR and imposing the beliefs on the masses.....just the ones in Congress who control the actual pursestrings

tell a lie enough times and somebody will believe it:eek:

:tro:

Just because I am voting for John McCain does not mean I agree with with all things republican. I agree with John McCain on the issues I feel are most important.

I also believe John McCain has tons more experience and poise then the other candidate and is the best man to become President of the Unites States of America.

I also do not think this election is between the "lesser of two evils". I feel neither McCain or Obama are evil in any way. They are both great Americans. I just agree with one's policy better than the others.

And what policies are those? I think its interesting that a middle class person would actually appreciate McCain's tax policy more than Obama's.

Obama/Dems would increase taxes and further deplete funds by causing healthcare to rise by their plans and legislation

Actually you are WRONG. Taxes would be LOWERED for middle class.

Factcheck.org.

Of course, you probably dont really care about the facts anyway if you are quoting fox news.

i haven't read obamas complete package, but have seen that he says he will keep bushes tax cuts put into effect a couple of years ago.
but he has also said he will let them expire, as they weren't permanent, which means a tax increase in the offing-back to former levels. so, if he really wanted a tax break, why not keep those cuts rather than let them expire?

i think it may be more of a states rights issue, altho the fact the constitution says all men (and i'm assuming they mean women!) are created equal. so in that respect, how can certain rights only be relegated to certain people? they can't be, not if we follow the constitution. that's why i think two consenting unrelated adults should be able to enter into a union, regardless of what they call it. imo 'marriage' is a religious doing-but once the 'state' began giving tax breaks and legal protection to spouses, in effect they are treating some citizens as more equal (kudos to animal farm, love the book) than others.

i don't agree with amending the constitution. they did that once with prohibition, it shouldn't be treated so casually. what i would like is for states that don't specifically allow certain marriages to at least recognize those conducted in other states. after all, drivers' licenses are 'transferrable' in that if you have a legit license and move over the state line, you have to re-license, but don't have to re-test as long as it's valid and unexpired.
BUT, it seems too many responsibilities that should be handled by the state are being relegated to the feds, which is why all this stuff that really doesn't matter in a presidential election get brought to the fore.

and i really think it stinks that, due to the upcoming election, congress essentially won't be doing anything before january-not even working on a spending bill. apparently they will pass a resolution keeping current spending, and not get back to doing our business til january.
seems imo that too many of our civil servants are more concerned with getting re-elected, and their party members back in office, than in taking care of the country.

apologies for my long winded post, or rant if you will....

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...fits_if_i.html

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...eceptions.html

DOH!!!.....factcheck is BOGUS....don't you pay attention when they're outed as a liberal site....Sheesh

What is relialble then Timmi? Foxnews.com?

factcheck is a bipartisan thinktank with both liberal and conservative minds. Check it out for yourself.

Timmi, i bet that you are a nice old guy.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

i thought this thread was a good place to put the above, i hope everyone will take the time to read it.

you have ADHD,don't you? I don't rely on Fox for news. I have checked it out and the article I read was written by a liberal blowhard from a lib paper! Dude, once burned, twice shy........I am a nice,crusty old guy!

Great read,Ziggy! But the people today say these are arcane ideas,to whit, we will inevitably slide farther down the ladder of hope. Thanks for posting it!

i had read it before, and my memory was jogged due to people talking about what the world wants, and that we should base what we do on world views. i disagree with that. we can barely come to a consensus on things as a country, if we start worrying what various and sundry nations think, we're really in trouble.
i am not saying that it's our way or no way, but i think we need to re-evaluate our seeming desire to be involved so much in other nations. we need to return to our roots so to speak.

i think a bit of a retreat from tinkering in other nations might make some even miss us a bit! you don't know what you've got til it's gone and all that.

amazing tho, as you read it, how many topics he touched on way back then, and how his points are still valid now-altho of course we have far more than europe to deal with.

What was it like back then Timmi?

You'll have to ask the Doctor!

I can't stand either candidate so this isn't coming from an Obama disciple, but maybe spelling the opposition's name correctly would add a shred of credibility to your redneck propaganda. . .

i see hockey read the link...

"The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the independence and liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts of common dangers, sufferings, and successes.

But these considerations, however powerfully they address themselves to your sensibility, are greatly outweighed by those which apply more immediately to your interest. Here every portion of our country finds the most commanding motives for carefully guarding and preserving the union of the whole."


"In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavor to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heartburnings which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection."

in other words, endearing (:rolleyes: ) terms such as redneck, nascartonia, etc do nothing to further the cause of our nation, but instead causes divisiveness.
to suggest one region is somehow better, smarter, than another would do the same. no part is greater than the whole or something like that. we all have things to contribute, and all have a point of view-and it may not always be from the mountaintop! someone is in the valley below...

i remember when i was in the navy we were told that altho some jobs in that branch were more glamorous than others (such as a pilot vs a bosuns mate) that ALL were necessary; that the navy needed everyone in order to function. i would say the same holds true as citizens. i know some look down their nose at those in the service industry, the garbage man for instance, or the guy who drains septic tanks...not very glamorous jobs at all. but if they didn't exist, we'd all be trashmen taking care of our own garbage.
so maybe everyone could take a lesson in humility, i know there are times when i could. if someone disagrees with you, it's not necessarily because they're a 'redneck'. maybe they just have had different experiences and viewpoints than yourself. we're all in this together folks, so maybe we could all be a little more courteous.

WHEN YOU HAVE A WHOLE SOUTHEAST PORTION of a country being all one color in presidential elections, I think it's time to let them live as they see fit, and let the rest of the country live the way they see fit. We aren't even close on viewpoint on very much at all. Really, go be what you want to be. If that lights up red as fkn Rudolf Reindeer's nose this year(again,) then certainly it's time to consider letting them have their own country. The Electoral College has caused this resentment. This monochromatic cluster of micro majorities has gotten old. Nevada, Colorado, Ohio, New Hampshire,and Virginia are the close states. There is no clear cut massive blue cluster, The IMMEDIATE COASTS ARE BLUE, BUT INLAND THEY ARE NOT NEARLY AS BLUE, AND SOME RED STATES. The obvious cluster is the Southeast. Go. Be your own people. Outlaw abortion. Hava a rifle in every truck, van and car. Give gays bus fare, and tell them to be on their way. $4 MINIMUM WAGE...Lower taxes on corporate profits. Be proud when EXXON MOBIL reports 15 bil in quarterly profits (that increased because you've cut their taxes by a 3rd.) Whatever you want to do. Just go. Be proud of your Southern Values, but please do it in your own neck country. Thank You. You should want to do this. Why be trying to keep this fake dance up? We don't like your neck values, and you have every right to dislike our values. At some point, it becomes time to separate when people just don't have enough in common. Zig I simply disagree that the Southeast part of this country has anything to contribute to the rest of the country( Not anymore.) Any commerce will continue as is. You'll just get to make the neck laws that fit the area you live in. That's the best for all parties involved.

I think this deserves a Go Fucl< Yourself b1tch. Dont be too upset that you're part of that 85% of the population who are idiots.

i see you read george washingtons words of wisdom and too them to heart.

you're right, not everyone has the same point of view, which was my point. but i'd think if you looked, most everyone wants the same thing. a decent job, at decent wages, a home they can be proud of, happy healthy kids growing up in a safe neighborhood.
not everyone here owns guns (shocking to you no doubt) or hunts, fishes. some are judgemental, some are not. some are religious, some aren't. you can't label a whole region based on your viewpoint, which in this case is as judgemental as those you're attempting to bash.

Zig for Prez! :tro: :tro:

oh wait i spelled a few things wrong there!

and scuds, i know you're angry because i mentioned your use of nascartonia, and that hits close to home-since you're beloved state hosts how many nascar events now? they seem pretty popular there as well.

lol
no thanks!!

i never use caps and such....lazy typer, so live and let live i guess!

he's just cranky because of all the states that he has had to recolor from blue to red during this week and doesn't want to face the fact that Ohio and Virginia are not blue anymore either. redneck bastions Michigan and Pennsylvania will be next.

What was he supposed to do ... have public executions, torture, and hang Tim McVeigh from a lamp post?

Over reacting and putting on an absurd spectacle isn't going to make a terrorist attack more likely to not happen. The criminal courts did nothing wrong.


Unless you are reffering to a couple of embassys bombed in Africa - and a navy ship that had a hole blown into it in the final weeks of his presidentcy. Grounds enough for an invasion of Poland I assume.

Certainly it's not totally one way, but it's controlled by people who are one way. That's always the important thing(who gets to decide.) Where you are, it's necks deciding for you. I never said it was totally neck thinking, but there's 100% necks in control of the decision making.

Actually, they said Cali may not deserve 2 , because the attendance was not as they would have liked at the recent one. We have plentiful supplies of white trash in the Inland Empire. We have enough trash to support 1 race (easily.) It's not like people here will go fetal if there isn't a NASCAR race. They would just drive up for the Vegas race (drinking beer n' smokin ' all the way.)

yes that was what i was reffering too. and the first wtc bombing.