Talk about brilliantly fast. :rolleyes:

She was one game mule.

Anyone have thoughts on Sysonby? He might be one that belongs on the list especially if he was truly drugged in his only loss.

Can't see how anyone could exclude Silver Charm. :p

Because the title is "Which horses were truly great?" Not "Which horses were truly grey?"

By the way, going to the back booth in orlando tonite if you want to go out!

if he was 5 of 10, i could see your point. just remember that no one holds citations losses against him, not with that win streak, and weight carried.

In those 50 wins Exterminator never had a streak longer than 6, and in that streak he only carried more than 126 once.

when i said win streak, it was in reference to citation.

I know, I just think if Exterminator truly belonged in that elite class he would have won more than 6 in a row.

why? you include nashua, he never won more than 6 in a row.

But Nashua won more than 2/3 of his races. Had Exterminator had a nice run in his 50 wins and then racked up a bunch of losses late in his career then he'd have a better excuse for his 50 losses. But he didn't.

Skip Away was the best horse of the 90's. Of course he was great. He faced real brilliant competiton, ran many huge performances, and was around from start to finish.

Ghostzapper was the best horse of this decade so far - because he was so lightly raced it might not be as easy to call him great but he was. I don't think you could call a horse great as lightly raced as he was had he run in a different era.

but he won 50 races. most horses don't even start in 50 races. most horses today don't have 50 starts between themselves, their sire and their dam.

anyway, i think exterminator was a heck of a horse.

ghostzapper was a brilliant horse. incredibly fast-i appreciate his talent far more now than i did when he ran, which sadly was far too infrequent for my taste.

There is no doubt of that, just like Scottie Pippen was a heck of a basketball player. But neither are at that elite level.

I don't think Skip Away measures up to three Hall of Fame horses from that decade: Cigar, Holy Bull or A.P Indy. For that matter, from the year he was selected HOY, I'm not sure that he was better than Formal Gold, who smoked him in the Woodward.

Formal Gold was a monster!

listing horses who ran 130 yrs. ago, with no automated timing and organize
betting coups how can you verify authenticity, of anything except what was written by a few writers of the day. should start list around 1920.

Not to mention Shuvee and Susan's Girl.

I will still make an argument for Equipoise. Horsemen of the 30s insisted he was the best since Man o' War.

She wasn't even the best 3yo filly of her year. Bold n' Determined beat her the only time they met and won over their elders, which GR didn't do. Look at her record.

1977 BOLD 'N DETERMINED,B,f,Bold And Brave 3 20 16 2 0 949,599
At 2 Won Oak Leaf S. -G2 (100,000)
At 3 Won Fantasy S. -G1 (150,000), Spinster S. -G1 (150,000), Coaching
Club American Oaks -G1 (125,000), Santa Susana S. -G1 (100,000),
Kentucky Oaks -G1 (100,000), Acorn S. -G1 (75,000), Maskette S. -G2 (75,000), Pasadena S. (50,000), 2nd Mother Goose S. -G1 (100,000)
At 4 Won Apple Blossom H. -G2 (200,000), Bewitch S. (50,000), 2nd La Brea

Exterminator ran until he was 10, long past his best years. Without modern analgesics, his old joints couldn't move him as fast as they had and his form nosedived. (This is why I still can't put John Henry in the same category as Exterminator, Kelso and Native Diver - he got bute for his elderly aches and pains.)

genuine risk beat the older misty gallore in the ruffian.

as for the above, in which of those races BnD beat males? and finish second and third three other times vs males? that was four grade one, classic races that risk took part in, with a third, a first in the derby, and then second in the other two legs.


bold n determined only won by a nose when she beat risk-she passed risk in the stretch, and was ahead by about half a length when risk started coming back at her, only to run out of stretch-and risk was also making her first start off a 13 week layoff.

I won't get into who I think was great or who wasn't. I will just say this.......if there is a debate to be had over a horse, he probably doesn't belong on that list. If I say Spectacular Bid, he's agreed upon by 99%. If I say Secretariat, he's agreed upon by 99%. The no debate horses are the only ones that belong on the list. The ones that you have to put their records out there and state their cases, probably not.

not to change the subject, but Chuck Daly said Pippen was the 2nd best player on the 1992 Dream Team... granted Bird and Magic were past their "prime" but that's still a pretty strong statement.

i only went into more detail to correct pedigree anns assertion that genuine risk didn't face and defeat older horses. i don't know what more genuine risk could have done, she did everything that is usually asked of a filly to define greatness.

i live 8 miles outside of hamburg, pippens hometown. he warmed the bench in high school, definitely wasn't precocious!

Northern Dancer
 

Add Northern Dancer. North American by way of Canada. His 14-2-2 record in 18 lifetime starts is strong enough, but the fact that he is the undisputed top breeder of all time warrants a place on the all time greats list. JMO

Danzig, let's agree that Genuine Risk and Bold n' Determined were the two best 3yo fillies of 1980 and among the 3 best 3yos period. (Temperence Hill was the champion, developed later, and beat GR in the Belmont. The colts directly behind GR in the Derby were hardly world-beaters - Rumbo and Jaklin Klugman, both G2 SWs and nice horses, but nothing special.) When they met head-to-head it was in Bold n' Determined's better distance range (7-9f) and not Genuine Risk's (9f-10f) so BnD won.

The greatest horse was that horse in the Sufolk 4th race today who unseated his rider during the race, jumped the rail, left the track and was found across the street at the Stop N Go.

And as I recall, Nashua was the all time leading $$ winner for a great number of years.

I think from retirement, until Spectacular Bid passed him.

If my memory is correct, I think that's a metric that should put Nashua in the group, for certain.

And Spectacular Bid is certainly on my list with 26 wins, 2 places and a show in 30 starts.

Chuck - that is "new york's Easy Goer"

The great Marshall Cassidy

still can't believe patient Pat Day eneded up on the inside of sunday silence in the preakness and let him get away in the BCC - not 2 of his best days

So what was his excuse in the Derby again?
I know there is one, but there are so many BS excuses to keep straight when it comes to Easy Goer's defeats to Sunday Silence, that sometimes I can't keep them all straight.

I thought Discreet Cat was better? lol

....;) no ****, can u imagine if E.G was a west coast horse and they cried about every loss to S.S.........

he got beat fair and square in the derby, day cost him the preakness and bcc in my opinion

Sunday Silence was the better horse. Gales is always bias when it comes to NY teams and horses. Hes a smart man but loses his rational side while pimping anything NY.

come on timmy , watch the races again

day gets easy goer trapped down on the rail , watch the replays , he losses by a nose and never gets his full stride going on the last 1/16 , if day is outside and not pinned on the rail he wins for fun , you gotta be kidding me that you think he wasn't better