How could a central office be effective anyway when the states have all the power?

The issue with any central authority figure is who will run it, how much will it cost, how large will the organization be, etc. What about the states like Florida where the racing regulations are actually state laws? If a Fed board using the threat of cutting off simulcasting mandates that they change their laws what happens then? It is not that simple to do that. What happens that during the process to change the law or create a new law some yahoo attaches something totally unreasonable to the racing law? Then it gets defeated becuase of the amendment added and the state goes dark? The ironic part of the use of the IHA is that the track have virtually no control over medication or testing yet they are the ones being threatened with the loss of the signal. This whole hearing was a setup. Regardless of what side of the issue you are on (not that there should even be sides) you have to admit that the whole process was contrived. I saw it first hand in KY with the wife. This is just a repeat of that whole process.

He said trainers should be taken out of the equation and they have no right in the signal disputes. He said a bunch of totally wrong crap about simulcasting and 'off shores'... I'm telling you... he's gone around the bend.

It may wind up being a states rights issue in the end. The idea that a federal law banning steroids will be effective is questionable unless all samples are tested under the same protocals using the same kits, spending the same amount per test or having them all tested at the same lab.

Horse racing fans are unique. We find things on a daily basis which are wrong, flawed or screwed-up. We call them out. We complain. We post to message boards. We write letters to the editor. We take a hiatus from wagering etc.

Now, the government, from afar, says, "Wait a second, there's so much wrong and nothing is being done. Let's look into it."

And our answer, is their logic, reasoning, approach, witness-list and questions are totally off base.

It kind of reminds me of a playground fight. The teachers aide tries to break it up, she drops threats, separates the instigators and brushes off her hands. Only to have the fight break out again, and again, and again. Now the principle says, "Wait a minute, this current system doesn't work, let me intervene."

Racing is a multi-billion industry which has become an industry of greed, near-sightedness and stagnation. The fact someone, for once, decided to hold our feet to the fire, is a good thing. Or maybe I'm just looking at this wrong. At the very least, hopefully it becomes a catalyst for reform.

I agree that there must be standards and accuracy to protect the trainers. There also needs to be severe penalties and not the the Pletcher/Assmussen 6 month vacation/suspension while your second in command runs your barn.

If the other major sports in society can do it, why can't racing?

Baseball, basketball, football... they're very similar in that each individual team is its own business, at its core, competing against other businesses in the same market.

The Mets want to out-draw the Yankees, they want to earn more money, they want a better bottom line. Yet under the umbrella for the "Good of the Game" they hold hands with the Yankees when it comes to new steroid testing procedures and other rules/laws.

In flabbergasts me that racing cannot do the same.

Travis.. Any idea of financials involved in this? Any idea? The logistics?

How many professional baseball players are there? Football players? Etc.. How many horses? Located where? And to be tested for how many THOUSANDS of medications?

Because Travis the scope of racing dwarfs those other sports. Because horses are subject to a far greater chance of environmental contamination because of the levels that are tested at. Different labs get different results for the same medications. How is that uniform? You cant compare it to other sports simply because of the enormity of the number of athletes involved and because we are far more regulated than they are already. You work in the business, you should understand these basic things. I am not against a central regulatory body nor am I against greater regulation of medication but to do it wrong makes it worse than not doing anything.

Racing is not the same because there is no revenue sharing. You don't perform, you don't get paid. And those that are getting paid the most are the ones who can afford the roids and keep their competitive advantage.

Honestly it would cripple 95% of the racing operations out there. Blame that on the owners. They are the ones who continue to give horses to guys with repeat violations. You cant legislate morality.

steroids are cheap and available to all. You dont have to like them but they arent expensive.

Ah yes, I stand corrected... still one of the greatest lines ever to be uttered in a movie.

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

The industry is going no where.

Today was just a bunch of old people that have nothing better to do.

I guess what I'm saying is people are really speaking-up about these issues now. But at the end of the day, what will come of it? Who takes the reins? Clearly our sport and industry has shown a significant inability to do so, so now the government is looking at holding our hand. If the government gets involved, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Well in that case...

:rolleyes:

I did not know that, I was just going by what Gary West said yesterday about winstrol.

I love when you guys throw out that if we spend a billion then.....

Then what? Where is that money coming from? Trainers and owners and betters are getting hammered like the rest of the country. Do you guys who draw a salary from the business understand that one of the reasons that the sport is so screwed up from a financial side is because of sentiments like yours? When the takeouts were raised and handed over to state governments because there was so much money available. What are you going to do when LAD gets rid of racing because there are no horses left? Where is that billion going to come from? From the bettors? They can stand another takeout increase? from the owners? Like there arent enough owners getting out of the business now? Why do you think the Bob and Beverly Lewises of the world became sellers too? Because it costs so damn much to run a racing stable that even the really rich people needed to try to get some cash back. One of the problems in the sales business is that all the buyers have become sellers. This industry is not going to be saved by a federal racing commission that tests for steroids. It will be killed by people who will bleed it dry based upon the testimony of zealots and rumors and half truths.

Which proves my point about what you read or hear...

Winstrol is usually charged at around $12 per cc. a normal monthly dosage would be 5 to 10 cc's. You do the math.

I never rarely use it but i believe testosterone is even cheaper.

Are you even remotely aware of the work that is being done by a host of people throughout the industry on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC that was brought up today? Work that is being diminished and insulted by douchebags and buffoons like Randy Moss who don't know what they're talking about but are accepted as 'authoritative' because of some perceived knowledge gleened from 17 minutes of airtime on ESPN once a month?

Are you kidding me? This was a mockery today. No one who has been working tirelessly to change things in the game, and that have been making progress, were representated.. Their efforts were obfuscated by lies, misrepresentations and innuendo. I'm surprised that someone that makes their living in the game would perpetuate the crap that we just listened to for 4 hours... It's irresponsible to be unaware of what is actually being attempted and accomplished.

Sorry to be harsh about it but accepting the bullsh+t from the likes of Jess Jackson is outrageous.

Personally I believe that most of what most people in the public really know about the issues is laughable. What horseracing really has failed at is PR. Most people within the industry seem not to be able to think for themselves, so it is not just the public. What many are forgetting is that there is more to racing than the Triple crown, Saratoga, Del Mar and the breeders Cup. there are hundreds of smaller track races every day. How are those tracks supposed to enact the same testing that will be done at Belmont? It is like saying that your single a minor league baseball franchise will be held to the same standards as the major league franchise. Who is going to pay for all of this?

Well said. So this hearing today is just typical election year politics.

So states like Del, Ill, Penn, WA, etc... that ban steroids, do these states pay for the testing and do you feel like they are fair and accurate?

I'm completely aware of the measurements being taken, of the new committees and groups formed. My golf partner is one a few of those committees. I know.

And no, I don't think today's hearings were the end-all, be-all, nor the answer. But its funny how someone outside our industry finally calls us out, and suddenly, we have this giant defensive stance. It's like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.

All of these posts in this thread by myself are talking well beyond just steroid testing. And you hit the nail on the head in this one, which what I'm saying.

PR is a foreign concept to horse racing. We realized that the hard way after the Derby when we, meaning every racetrack from LAD to Backyard Downs in South Dakota, was caught with our pants down. But reforms were made, tactics were organized, and we were more prepared shortly thereafter. Are we 100% now? Certainly not, but its a start.

It's like horse racing is a giant ship on the open seas with a multitude or organizations trying to control the udder. Eventually, someone has to come forward and mitigate the chaos. The chaos being everything from surfaces, to jockey weight, to signal disputes to steroids.

Maybe years of being in the industry and seeing firsthand how f'ing stupid the decision makers are, by and large, has dampened the panel members' faith in the "host of people" you mention.

The NTRA has been around for 10 years with the goal of essentially making the sport more popular. What have they come up with? Go Baby Go!, and Win and You're In.

Brilliant.

Actually it's not. It's vocal response to say what IS BEING DONE... I'm on the air 15 hours a week doing it. My head is hardly in the sand.

As bad a job as they've done, they and the American Horse Council did keep racing out of the clean sweep of gambling on the internet. If NOTHING else, that counts for a great deal. It's easier to fight from here on the defensive than to try to re-establish the positioning.

They themselves arent sure about the accuracy since most have extended the grace periods where steroids are still allowable. The states pay for the testing and VA even has a program where they will test you before you run to make sure that you are clear.

In ten years of existence, the NTRA's only accomplishment is temporarily preventing the total elimination of the sport. Fan-friggen-tastic.

My point is that I can hardly fault someone who is tired of trusting other industry insiders to fix the problems the industry is facing.

I think thats where the faith of general population is softening. We read stories about committees and approaches and ideas and thoughts, yet it never seems to really materialize. You and I can say to our friends, "There is a new committee looking into performance enhancing drugs which should help improve the status quo" all we want, but at the end of the day, this committee really has no jurisdiction. So they can only recommend, and before you know, we have a pile of recommendations, but no way to enforce. So what needs to happen for the sport to start enforcing? That's where I am coming from.

I wasn't calling you on ostrich... for the record!

To the contrary I believe that the industry has not taken a defensive enough stance. All I saw today were people casting stones at the industry. And I hate to tell you that the Feds will take today as the end all, be all as far as their involvement. That is why the list of 'guests' was so slanted. If you knew nothing about horseracing before this hearing you will have a really dim and one sided view afterwards. Let us not forget that many if not most of our experts arent that knwledgeable about the entire issue outside of their own fifedom's so to expect decided non-experts like congress decide our fate is not an appealing thought. Think NYCOTB on a grand scale.

What are exactly ARE the compelling counter-arguments to today's "one-sided" arguments?

It simply is not that easy. First of all most of the issues have roots in money. secondly anything involving billion dollar industries will come with lawyers attached at the hip. Congress may have a lot of authority but many of the issues that our business has are ones of greed like just about every other business. You dont see Congress solving the gas price issue by passing a law saying that gas cant be sold for more than $2.00 a gallon do you? There is a limit to what they can and cant do. More importantly is the ability of the industry to adopt the regulations that they may enact. I have said a hundred times about this situation, who is going to pay for all of this and how do we know that the Federal board to regulate racing wont be filled in the same manner as the state racing commissions that have taken so much grief?

The NTRA was designed as a marketing tool. Why anyone thought that it would or could serve as a league office is beyond me.

I'm not implying that it was supposed to serve as a league office. My point is that it was set up by industry insiders to make the sport more poplular, and instead the sport has become less popular. This is but one example of why people like those on today's congressional panel may not be all that fired up to let the same industry insiders work towards solutions to racing's problems.

Keep at it the state level and let them pay for it. It's in their best interest since they take such a large cut of the handle and the public wants it. After this discussion I don't think a centralized office, in terms of steroid testing, is feasible. Create one that promotes the sport but allow the states to regulate steroids.

Who is tired on that panel? jess jackson? he has been in the game 5 years and has managed to sue half the people in it. Arthur hancock? He took the same position 20 years ago. I believe he is living in the past (which wasnt nearly as nice as he remembers) but his stance is older than the NTRA by 10 years. Jack Van Berg? He is a bitter old trainer that cant pay his bills. I may just as bitter as he is but the game moved on without him and he is mad. Randy Moss? I loved his line about being a trainer. When exactly was that? What is he tired of? The fact that the game which sucks so bad has allowed him to be on national tv? Or that the DRF has adapted his pace figures? He thrives yet calls for others to suffer (including bettors)because he is Mr. politically correct. Funny that the people with their agenda's on display pubically were allowed yet many others who asked to be on the panel were denied.

Let me give you an analogy to what may possibly occur.

A department store is doing steady business. They have the ups and downs like other businesses but they are established and have a loyal customer base. But they have this little shoplifting problem that is biting off 5% of its profits. A local tv station does a story on the shoplifting issue and people all of a sudden have a lack of confidence in the stores security and think they may be in danger. Even though no one was threatened and shoplifters rarely are violent offenders, the store decides it needs to beef up its security forces and use all the modern devices even metal detectors to keep out guns, even though guns have been an issue. They say it is to restore the publics confidence in us. so they put in all these costly devices and cameras. Then the bill come for the equipment. Holy crap they store says. This is expensive. We have to raise our prices to pay for all this stuff, even after finding some of it is overkill. So they raise their prices 20% to pay for the equipment. The end results are decidedly poor. The good news is that shoplifting is way down from the previous levels and the customers feel safer. The bad news is that sales are off 40% because there are a whole lot fewer customers because they have priced themselves out of the market.

Then let's all come up with an alternative solution to the following problems:

1) Drugs have weakened the breed, which in turn makes the sport less interesting and fun, which in turn means fewer new fans discover the sport.

2) Drugs produce wasky results sometimes, which in turn drives new gamblers to poker or elsewhere where they THINK they have an edge, as opposed to driving them towards horse racing, where they KNOW FOR A FACT that unless they spend 70 hours a week watching replays and taking notes, they have no edge and are at a disadvantage unless they know who is cheating with drugs. (That's one unique thing about horse racing. It may be the one gambling activity where people correctly realize that they are at such a disadvantage that they actually won't bet, as opposed to every other gambling activity where they bet anyway, or they mistakenly think they have an advantage becasue they're just that good.)