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-   -   The Gods have finally spoken... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23100)

fpsoxfan 06-07-2008 08:10 PM
Yes it was lucky, I hit the Triple.....yup, boxed my birthday in the triple.
With that said, I'm still bummed that I didn't see a Triple Crown Winner. There's always next year.

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
how does racing take a step forward with a triple crown winner? will someone explain that?
i have no idea. unless the tc winner is a gelding who runs for six more years and people go to the track to see him in action.
i mean, does the nhl get new fans AFTER the stanley cup? no. everyone knows the red wings won-but casual fans will remain so, just like people who pay attention to college b'ball long enough to fill out a bracket, or the nfl long enough to go to a superbowl party.

The Bid 06-07-2008 08:11 PM
I personally expect more out of Bailey, hes been around the horses long enough to know a shot of winstrol every 15 days doesnt do anything

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
I personally expect more out of Bailey, hes been around the horses long enough to know a shot of winstrol every 15 days doesnt do anything
i thought it was once a month on the 15th. and bailey rode the horses, all he had to know about them was which way to face.

King Glorious 06-07-2008 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I think the point he was making was Big Brown's 1/4 crack was not as bad as Touch Gold's and that his connections said it wasn't a problem especially after his good works after the patch. Therefore it cannot be used as an excuse.
Looking back on the situation and how I remember it, I think it's the other way around. I thought Touch Gold's wasn't that bad. If it had been, they had every reason to scratch. He wasn't in position to win the TC. Big Brown's situation was different. I don't think he's running today if a TC wasn't on the line but since it was and he was, I don't think they were totally forthcoming in how serious it was and I don't blame them if they weren't.

My thinking is that they thought Big Brown was some kind of superhorse and could overcome anything. I never thought that. I think he's a very good horse and had accomplished some very nice things but I think what he's done had more to do with what he was able to run against than it had to do with how great he is. Truly great horses can overcome major obstacles. Good ones need more to go their way. He didn't have everything go his way and things caught up with him.

_ed_ 06-07-2008 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsUp
Well congrats to Nick Zito and Da Tara.
Yeah ditto.

Very impressive.

phystech 06-07-2008 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
how does racing take a step forward with a triple crown winner? will someone explain that?
Because it draws the fans interest, it draws the media interest, and all of that helps the sport. This horse would be the toast of the town, the media darling, the fan's choice..... if..... and it didn't happen. And instead we have abunch of assholes that will ask if he should have run with the quarter crack, or if the lack of the "shot' was the cause.......


Can u imagine the interest in the Travers if he'd won and run? Or the match of an undefeated TC winner against Curlin in the BC Classic?

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
Looking back on the situation and how I remember it, I think it's the other way around. I thought Touch Gold's wasn't that bad. If it had been, they had every reason to scratch. He wasn't in position to win the TC. Big Brown's situation was different. I don't think he's running today if a TC wasn't on the line but since it was and he was, I don't think they were totally forthcoming in how serious it was and I don't blame them if they weren't.

My thinking is that they thought Big Brown was some kind of superhorse and could overcome anything. I never thought that. I think he's a very good horse and had accomplished some very nice things but I think what he's done had more to do with what he was able to run against than it had to do with how great he is. Truly great horses can overcome major obstacles. Good ones need more to go their way. He didn't have everything go his way and things caught up with him.
bid couldn't overcome a pin and franklin...and big brown was no spectacular bid.

once again, a trainer underestimates his competition and a physical issue with his horse, and overestimates the ability of his horse to overcome several obstacles. i agree that had big brown not been going for the tc, he'd have been in his stall today, rather than on the track.

The Bid 06-07-2008 08:17 PM
You are probably right Danzig, whether it be 15 days, or once every 30 it still doesnt do anything at all

Bailey is a fairly intelligent guy and hes been around the game his entire adult life. He knows the Winstrol does nothing

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
It's days like this that make me sick to be a horse owner.

I'm extremely disappointed to see that Ricky didn't realize every horse owners or trainers dream - to win the Triple Crown.

It disgusts me to see the crap written about him based on sound bites from the maggot media. It further disgusts me to see the venom spewed by the so called "fans" of the sport who cheer Big Brown's loss.

If Cannon were so lucky as to have a tri-crown horse for DT Stable next year, would we be so lucky as to escape the microscope of the doubting fans? Of course not - the media and the "fans" would find something to hate about us.

If I can have a $5k claimer that wins an N1X and hear wails of "they must have cheated" when I won.... it can just be a brutal sport no matter what you do.

I wanted to see a Triple Crown winner today, I wanted to see my friend win the Triple Crown today, and I wanted to see racing take a step forward today. At the end of the day, I'm left with an empty bag - I haven't felt so disappointed since I dropped a slip on a $32k claimer that fractured a knee, broke down and all I ended up with was an empty halter and a bill to kill the horse after the race.....
Easy Tom, it will be ok. The guy won the Derby and Preakness, he is doing ok. But part of sports and competition is rooting for the teams and people that you like and rooting against the ones you dont like. Personally I have nothing against Dutrow. I actually feel kind of bad for him (because i know he will second guess himself forever) but some of the other connections (mostly guys that arent in the limelight) talked so much that it is hard not to root against them. And i'm sure that if we had a TC contender that Scavs would be a huge media target but that's the way it goes...

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:17 PM
i wouldn't say it does nothing. if it did nothing, then why give it?

The Bid 06-07-2008 08:18 PM
Psytech, who says hes the fans choice? There are a lot of people who didnt care for Big Brown, the connections, the trainer, he was hardly a fan favorite with all the recent news on the connections. He was the betting choice, thats about it

It would do nothing to improve a horses performance outside eating. They give it because it keeps them eating, and its a mark up.

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i thought it was once a month on the 15th. and bailey rode the horses, all he had to know about them was which way to face.
Most Jockeys dont spend much time around horses except when they ride them, which is a good thing because if they only knew...

SCUDSBROTHER 06-07-2008 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
It's days like this that make me sick to be a horse owner.

I'm extremely disappointed to see that Ricky didn't realize every horse owners or trainers dream - to win the Triple Crown.

It disgusts me to see the crap written about him based on sound bites from the maggot media. It further disgusts me to see the venom spewed by the so called "fans" of the sport who cheer Big Brown's loss.

If Cannon were so lucky as to have a tri-crown horse for DT Stable next year, would we be so lucky as to escape the microscope of the doubting fans? Of course not - the media and the "fans" would find something to hate about us.

If I can have a $5k claimer that wins an N1X and hear wails of "they must have cheated" when I won.... it can just be a brutal sport no matter what you do.

I wanted to see a Triple Crown winner today, I wanted to see my friend win the Triple Crown today, and I wanted to see racing take a step forward today. At the end of the day, I'm left with an empty bag - I haven't felt so disappointed since I dropped a slip on a $32k claimer that fractured a knee, broke down and all I ended up with was an empty halter and a bill to kill the horse after the race.....
Cheating Trashtalker stepped in poo. You didn't have to look very hard to find something to hate about this guy. Most of us have been taught to respect our competition. The reason our parents and coaches taught us that is because things can just go wrong(even if you think you are the best.) Even if you cheat(which really is the main reason he has the confidence to make fun of his competition,) you can get beat. I don't know how you could feel sorry for this guy. This guy is trashtalkin' royalty.

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
Because it draws the fans interest, it draws the media interest, and all of that helps the sport. This horse would be the toast of the town, the media darling, the fan's choice..... if..... and it didn't happen. And instead we have abunch that assholes that will aks if he should have run with the quarter crack, or if the lack of the "shot' was the cause.......


Can u imagine the interest in the Travers if he'd won and run? Or the match of an undefeated TC winner against Curlin in the BC Classic?
only those who follow the sport would get excited about a curlin/brown match up. all those people today only knew a tc was on the line, and if they saw him win they could say they were there to see it. but i bet if you go and ask 100 people about a curlin/brown match up, you'd get a blank stare followed by 'who?'. most of the folks who go to the derby/preakness/belmont races only go for the spectacle. they put a few bucks down based on a name, the silks, or their lucky number. look how many bet big truck at churchill because they confused him with big brown. then those in md and ny bet the derby winner. that's all they know, and it doesn't stick with them. hell, most people can't pick the president out of a line up, and you think they're going to remember a horse?

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
Because it draws the fans interest, it draws the media interest, and all of that helps the sport. This horse would be the toast of the town, the media darling, the fan's choice..... if..... and it didn't happen. And instead we have abunch that assholes that will aks if he should have run with the quarter crack, or if the lack of the "shot' was the cause.......


Can u imagine the interest in the Travers if he'd won and run? Or the match of an undefeated TC winner against Curlin in the BC Classic?
Tom,
media attention now IS negative. That is what I have been saying all along. That the mainstream media covers every event looking for an issue to make into a story. They cover all events like that and horseracing isnt immune to it. When the supposed house guys like Moss and Bailey make statements like they have made after the derby and today what can we expect. What if he won the race and went lame afterwards? then the media would be talking about how they must have doped him up to get him through the race. Or if they decide to retire him after winning? What good is that? Horseracing should learn from baseball. Just ignore the bad publicity and move on like nothing happened. Look at all the bad stuff that has happened to that sport and yet they roll right along.

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Psytech, who says hes the fans choice? There are a lot of people who didnt care for Big Brown, the connections, the trainer, he was hardly a fan favorite with all the recent news on the connections. He was the betting choice, thats about it

It would do nothing to improve a horses performance outside eating. They give it because it keeps them eating, and its a mark up.

just read this in a drf article:

"It's not that kind of situation," Bramlage said. "Anabolic steroids keep them eating and happy and aggressive, which he showed all week long."

The Bid 06-07-2008 08:30 PM
Hes takling about a Test, Deca, the Winstrol doesnt make them aggressive. It keeps them eating, it has nothing to do with their performance once they hit the racetrack. Probably increases the chances of bleeding which is why all American horses need lasix

phystech 06-07-2008 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i wouldn't say it does nothing. if it did nothing, then why give it?
Advice - learn more about it before you ask questions about it, unless those questions are asked because you don't understand it and want to learn more....

I won 6 races with a horse that wouldn't eat, and wouldn't hold any weight. Off the claim he was a fish - look at him from front and he disappeared. A little Equipoise and he ate up and looked for more - and started winning.

Did we win because of steroids? YES. Did the horse turn into Arnold? NO. But he put on some healthy weight and maintained it because....... he ATE.

Split Rock 06-07-2008 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716
It was God who said that he should be 4 wide the whole way around the track?
Yea...that's likely the reason he eased... extended way too much energy going 4 wide....although, in the Derby, I think he was 10 wide and won in a gallop.

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Split Rock
Yea...that's likely the reason he eased... extended way too much energy going 4 wide....although, in the Derby, I think he was 10 wide and won in a gallop.
who won the Canterbury race?

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
Advice - learn more about it before you ask questions about it, unless those questions are asked because you don't understand it and want to learn more....

I won 6 races with a horse that wouldn't eat, and wouldn't hold any weight. Off the claim he was a fish - look at him from front and he disappeared. A little Equipoise and he ate up and looked for more - and started winning.

Did we win because of steroids? YES. Did the horse turn into Arnold? NO. But he put on some healthy weight and maintained it because....... he ATE.
of course i asked because i wanted to know the answer. but logic would dictate that someone wouldn't go to the monthly expense of giving something if it truly did NOTHING. it does something-which i read a few minutes ago was keep a good appetite in a horse, etc. and you just said the same, so thanks for the answer.

Rupert Pupkin 06-07-2008 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSC
I think the point he was making was Big Brown's 1/4 crack was not as bad as Touch Gold's and that his connections said it wasn't a problem especially after his good works after the patch. Therefore it cannot be used as an excuse.
What Big Brown had was much worse than what Touch Gold had. Touch Gold did not have a quarter crack. Touch Gold had grabbed a quarter in his previous race but it wasn't a true quarter crack. I know that because my trainer was asking David Hofmans about it just a couple of days ago. Hofmans said that what Big Brown had was 100x worse.

phystech 06-07-2008 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Tom,
media attention now IS negative. That is what I have been saying all along. That the mainstream media covers every event looking for an issue to make into a story. .
Yep - you couldn't be more correct. The negative media will find something to pick apart about every thing.

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
Yep - you couldn't be more correct. The negative media will find something to pick apart about every thing.
Maybe we can get Paris Hilton to buy a horse and totally throw them off

The Bid 06-07-2008 08:46 PM
That would be hot

Scav 06-07-2008 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Easy Tom, it will be ok. The guy won the Derby and Preakness, he is doing ok. But part of sports and competition is rooting for the teams and people that you like and rooting against the ones you dont like. Personally I have nothing against Dutrow. I actually feel kind of bad for him (because i know he will second guess himself forever) but some of the other connections (mostly guys that arent in the limelight) talked so much that it is hard not to root against them. And i'm sure that if we had a TC contender that Scavs would be a huge media target but that's the way it goes...
I was actually thinking after the race today that next year when things are serious, if I would be allowed to be interviewed, I could have some fun, freestyle some answers.

Instad of "babe" I would say "Yo"

What up Yo

Take it easy yo

I do'nt know the answer to that, yo

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
What Big Brown had was much worse than what Touch Gold had. Touch Gold did not have a quarter crack. Touch Gold had grabbed a quarter in his previous race but it wasn't a true quarter crack. I know that because my trainer was asking David Hofmans about it just a couple of days ago. Hofmans said that what Big Brown had was 100x worse.
What would David Hofmans know? Randy Moss said it was worse and that's that!!!!!! He is an expert you know...

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
I was actually thinking after the race today that next year when things are serious, if I would be allowed to be interviewed, I could have some fun, freestyle some answers.

Instad of "babe" I would say "Yo"

What up Yo

Take it easy yo

I do'nt know the answer to that, yo
Told you about the racing Gods...you got me yesterday and Dutrow got himself today.

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scav
I was actually thinking after the race today that next year when things are serious, if I would be allowed to be interviewed, I could have some fun, freestyle some answers.

Instad of "babe" I would say "Yo"

What up Yo

Take it easy yo

I do'nt know the answer to that, yo
Cant wait to see the sandals in the turf Club

RolloTomasi 06-07-2008 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
What Big Brown had was much worse than what Touch Gold had. Touch Gold did not have a quarter crack. Touch Gold had grabbed a quarter in his previous race but it wasn't a true quarter crack. I know that because my trainer was asking David Hofmans about it just a couple of days ago. Hofmans said that what Big Brown had was 100x worse.
What's also ironic about the Touch Gold comparison is that despite the Belmont win, later in the '97 season,Touch Gold tailed off badly (just as Big Brown did today), getting beat the length of the stretch at odds-on in the Pegasus (in a 4-horse field) and then virtually easing in the BC Classic behind Skip Away. I don't recall exactly, but I believe the excuse was the development of a quarter crack, possibly a result of the trauma sustained in the Preakness followed by continued training/racing during the summer.

phystech 06-07-2008 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Maybe we can get Paris Hilton to buy a horse and totally throw them off
Can you send her checkbook my way? I had a guy from NY ask if he could buy a $100 share in my stable the other day..... 8-)

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
What would David Hofmans know? Randy Moss said it was worse and that's that!!!!!! He is an expert you know...
i still like moss' capping, but he's been a bit screwbally lately-the 1/4 crack talk on top of the whip comments a few weeks ago.
i never have cared for the gnome sitting on his high chair next to him tho....

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phystech
Can you send her checkbook my way? I had a guy from NY ask if he could buy a $100 share in my stable the other day..... 8-)
Hell DeeTee is a high rollers outfit compared to that dude

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
What's also ironic about the Touch Gold comparison is that despite the Belmont win, later in the '97 season,Touch Gold tailed off badly (just as Big Brown did today), getting beat the length of the stretch at odds-on in the Pegasus (in a 4-horse field) and then virtually easing in the BC Classic behind Skip Away. I don't recall exactly, but I believe the excuse was the development of a quarter crack, possibly a result of the trauma sustained in the Preakness followed by continued training/racing during the summer.
i'm just blown away by da tara today-he's certainly gotten good at the right time. who won the sir barton btw??
no way in a million years most would have seen him winning that today.

3kings 06-07-2008 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Hell DeeTee is a high rollers outfit compared to that dude
Thanks Chuck.

horseofcourse 06-07-2008 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i'm just blown away by da tara today-he's certainly gotten good at the right time. who won the sir barton btw??
Jeremy Rose!! (Roman Emperor the horse)

Cannon Shell 06-07-2008 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i still like moss' capping, but he's been a bit screwbally lately-the 1/4 crack talk on top of the whip comments a few weeks ago.
i never have cared for the gnome sitting on his high chair next to him tho....
He is one of the few guys on air that have a clue from a handicapping standpoint but he has been awfully agenda driven lately and more often than not is using myths and misconceptions as the basis for his stances.

Danzig 06-07-2008 08:55 PM
oh yeah, the empire maker colt....i can't believe i keep forgetting some of this years sophomores. :cool:

phystech 06-07-2008 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Hell DeeTee is a high rollers outfit compared to that dude
Well, that's all his Mother said he could spend.... I kid you not.

You advertise on the internet, you draw all kinds..... 8-)


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