http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJewbFZHI34

:cool:

racist

liberal....







































had such high hopes for you too....:cool:

I know Kev'..what can I say..You hang with me and you'd never know

Scavs and Chuck vouch for you...

If Barney and Dell start trying to say good stuff about you...then I know its all lies.

As long as he has friends al BWW he is ok!

shhh..maybe I'll e-mail Kev our new hire?

He will approve

Hell even SCUDS would approve

I am against torture in all forms.What happened during the 2nd World War was not torture.We could either lose Japanese and American lives in a land war invading Japan,or we could lose Japanese lives in a way that would convince them to stop fighting us.That was not torture.It was war.We didn't have those people in our custody.I am against torture of anybody.Don't treat your prisoners the way scum does.Treat them the way you would want American prisoners treated,or don't complain when our men are tortured.The reason to have prisoners is to keep them from harming others.They aren't for you to do as you please with.I don't know when we started acting like this,but I will never think (in any case)that it's anything less than dog activity.

There's a difference between random torture for "funsies" and the need to get information to save thousands. Do you differentiate between the two at all?

There is pretty compelling evidence that the Japanese ate many of our prisoners of war.

So we should just turn em lose and nuke em?

No,I don't rationalize in order to act like a dog.You can always come up with reasons to act badly.There is no end to that.We disagree about whether they are your property to do this with.You keep using a reward to justify an evil.Please step back to the earlier step and evaluate that before you get to this dessert you keep offering up.The 1st step is whether you believe they are ours to do this with.It's about whether they are our property to abuse,and I fundamentally disagree with those who believe that prisoners are our property to treat as we see fit.Now,once you have got past this step(and you agree that they are ours to do what we want with,)then go forward with this reward (to make it seem a good thing.)We are too quick to get to the prize,and we skip steps.The primary step is are they ours to do this with.To me,you need to say yes or no to that before you get to what good things you think torture will bring you.So,no,I can't get to this reward you speak of because I can't agree to ever treat them like we own them.To me,they are there to keep them away from the rest of society.They are not there for us to torture.I can't get to all these prizes you offer,because you are in the wrong(before you even offer the prize....you're wrong for treating a prisoner like they are a kids doll.)You can't make that right.

approved:cool:


*note to self...a trip to Arlington this year may be a good idea

Send Scuds an email...he is much too tense...

shes way too light for Scuds.

Scuds likes them light brown/tan....with some serious junk in the trunk

If American prisoners were knowingly withholding information that
would help stop the decimation of a huge numer of innoncent people
all intended to terrorize other innocent people as a whole, I would want them
waterboarded.

Scuds...this "reward" could be my daughter or a family member of yours. I will never agree with the death penalty (please..no new threads) because I don't think the State should have that power. And yes, I've sat at a million parties where the.."If your daughter" scenario is played out..horrible stuff. But if your life could be saved by a waterboard..sorry..I am in favor of that.

I would like Isiah Thomas waterboarded

I think he has been.
No detectable response.

What I would like to know is that the "studies" that say it may not be effective actually were done? Do they take out ads in The Bagdad News asking for volunteers? "If you are a terrorist and would like to make a few extra dollars without killing anyone, please stop by the U of Iraq and take part in our torture seminar"?

Actually the fans feel like they have been while watching the games...

See,you've allowed yourself to go right on by the 1st question(do we ever have the right to treat them like we own them.)Can you answer this please.

Two seperate things...one doesn't equal the other. Slavery was owning without an endgame.

You have demonstrated Machiavellian tendencies over n' over again.I wouldn't expect this to change.

Well,I am never going to agree to go fishing for information by way of torture.I am not interested in the quality of the information(it will be a very mixed bag.).That is not the point.The point is that they aren't there for us to experiment with.They are there to keep them away from innocent people.

Calm.

No of course we dont own them.
And this is not an experiment.
We are attempting to save Innocent
peoples lives in my scenario. thats why I
want it only used in the most dire situations
as I gave. If you are honest, you keep
the right to use it. We could of course just
lie and resort to it anyway; might never have to.

Night.
Lost an hour.

oh sh*t..It's midnight

For what it's worth, we're very close. I don't want to go on the fishing trip either, but to out and out ban "that"...I can't do it

Machiavellian was a very nice sire and I'm glad that you honored me with such a nice label

Yes,but what does this gem have to do with us torturing our prisoners?We certainly don't want to act like that scum did.It wouldn't have been excessive to turn that island into glass,but we didn't do it.

I don't see it as giving something up.I see it as not allowing abuse.BTW,we would be much better off if we took a strong stand on this,and didn't look luke warm about it.I would think after Abu Garab,we would want to give off a much different message than this.

What amazingly valuable and important information do you believe this would provide? (other than what pictures he's using for blackmail)

None, but it would make me feel better