[quote=Bold Brooklynite]might be a decent thread without you cluttering it up with your babbling.

Why can't people be respectful and not refer to everyone who does not support the Israeli attack as a worthy-to-die Arab or lacking capacity?

When Bold Bumbler and Dixie and others toss out their "credentials" it's just away for them to boost their self-esteem or whatever.

Different people see the world different ways. I'm not an Israeli zealot as some, yet I'd never say I hope their people die as Dixie and Bold Bumbler wish upon the innocent Arab people.

[quote=SentToStud]I'm not faulting anyone else's character. I probably will never change their views.
This today....
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0720-04.htm

Unfortunately for you ... everyone else knows that when you resort to name-calling and personal attacks ... you're admitting that you've lost the argument.

Your knowledge of history seems to be limited ... so I'll provide a list of places where the United States defeated tyranny and brought about freedom and democracy.

• We defeated the murderous, genocidal National Socialists ... and helped Germany and Austria become free democracies. In doing so ... we liberated the peoples of France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Yugoslavia, and Norway from the brutal National Socialist regime.

• We defeated the murderous Socialist Workers Movement ... and helped Italy to become a free democracy.

• We defeated the murderous, genocidal Shinto Imperialists ... and helped Japan become a free democracy. In doing so ... we liberated China, Korea, The Phillipines, Burma, Thailand, and Indonesia from their brutal rule.

• We defeated mass-murdering Soviet Communism ... and in doing so liberated Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan from its brutal rule ... and also liberated Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Bulgaria, and Hungary ... most of which are now free democracies.

• We supported those who fought totalitarian communism in Spain, South Korea, Taiwan, Nicarague, El Salvador, Chile, Grenada, Cambodia, and The Phillipines ... all of which are now free democracies.

• We supported democratic movements in South Africa, Haiti, and Rhodesia ... all of which became free democracies ... though the latter two have slid backwards since.

• We defeated the murderous, totalitarian Baathist rule in Iraq ... and helped establish a free democracy.

• We supported those who fought totalitarian communism in North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, and Angola ... which so far have been unsuccessful in establishing free democracies.

• At no point have we used our military superiority to conquer and subjugate anyone.

All of the above was achieved in less than 65 years ... a virtual blink of an eye in historic terms. I'd say it adds up to quite a splendid set of achievements in promoting freedom and democaracy.

Are you aware of any other country ... now or at any time in the past ... which has done more to promote and establish freedom? If so ... please provide the details.

[quote=Bold Brooklynite]Unfortunately for you ... everyone else knows that when you resort to name-calling and personal attacks ... you're admitting that you've lost the argument.

Your knowledge of history seems to be limited ... so I'll provide a list of places where the United States defeated tyranny and brought about freedom and democracy.

• We defeated the murderous, genocidal National Socialists ... and helped Germany and Austria become free democracies. In doing so ... we liberated the peoples of France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Yugoslavia, and Norway from the brutal National Socialist regime.

• We defeated the murderous Socialist Workers Movement ... and helped Italy to become a free democracy.

• We defeated the murderous, genocidal Shinto Imperialists ... and helped Japan become a free democracy. In doing so ... we liberated China, Korea, The Phillipines, Burma, Thailand, and Indonesia from their brutal rule.

• We defeated mass-murdering Soviet Communism ... and in doing so liberated Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan from its brutal rule ... and also liberated Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, Bulgaria, and Hungary ... most of which are now free democracies.

• We supported those who fought totalitarian communism in Spain, South Korea, Taiwan, Nicarague, El Salvador, Chile, Grenada, Cambodia, and The Phillipines ... all of which are now free democracies.

• We supported democratic movements in South Africa, Haiti, and Rhodesia ... all of which became free democracies ... though the latter two have slid backwards since.

• We defeated the murderous, totalitarian Baathist rule in Iraq ... and helped establish a free democracy.

• We supported those who fought totalitarian communism in North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, and Angola ... which so far have been unsuccessful in establishing free democracies.

• At no point have we used our military superiority to conquer and subjugate anyone.

boy's got some wicked cut-n-paste skiils, that I'll give him.

[quote=SentToStud]LMFAO!!!!!
I'm still trying to figure out the "free democracy" in Iraq. My guess is that the
site he pasted from doesn't include "civil war" in their double-speak.
Also, notice no mention of Cambodia. Thank you Tricky D ick.

[quote=Downthestretch55]Well, I spent some time in the jungles of Cambodia, believe me...anything is better than Pol Pot and his minions!

[quote=somerfrost]Agree Somerfrost.
I was responding to the "democracies" that were set up by the USA.
Pol Pot was only one that was needlessly created.
The list would indeed be very long if I went back to Dulles and the United Fruit Company in Central America, not including Panama more recently.
In Africa, BB is correct. Again the failures are cited.
In the Asia, wow! Marcos and Aquino anyone? How about Indonesia?
The CIA's overthrow of Allende in Chile, (South America).

Holy cow! Is there a question as to why the USA is held suspect by so many on this planet? The credibility gets thinner and thinner despite the right-wing propagandist's claims.
Spin, spin, spin...just like the planet.
Only difference is one is based on physical reality, the other is based on an artificial one.

[quote=somerfrost]Somer ... I'm sure you can understand why I have certain posters on my Ignore List ... but your response to one of them made his post visible to me ... and his continued ignorance as blatant as ever.

I'm sure you noticed that Cambodia clearly appears in my fifth bullet point ... but someone who is filled with hate and rage is much less likely to see what's there.

And isn't it interesting ... that I mentioned 44 countries whose freedom has been greatly enhanced by the United States ... and that poster can only resort to spouting falsehoods about two of them ... while completely ignoring the other 42?

And thanks for your service ... it's a shame we weren't able to rescue the Cambodian people the way we rescued billions of others. But happily ... Cambodia has made major strides toward freedom since the murderous communists were ousted ... and is now considered to be "Mostly Free" in the latest Wall Street Journal evaluation.

[quote=Bold Brooklynite]how do i out you on my ignore list?

[quote=somerfrost]and if this were truly the case, you would know that it was the Vietnamese that liberated Cambodia from Pol Pot. You would also know that it was the illegal US bombing of Cambodia that helped allow Pol Pot to assume control in the first place.

Yes, the "balance of the universe" and the "fight against evil".

[quote=Bold Brooklynite]What have you ever rescued?

The US created the instability in Cambodia. You really do need to read your history books.

As for the Phillipines, the US installed Marcos and supported him for close to 30 years. That was the most corrupt and tyrranical eras in phillipino history. Where do you get your info?

[quote=dalakhani]I mentioned 44 countries in my response to your earlier post ... and asked you a simple, direct question at the end of it.

It seems you've chosen to skip over it ... and not respond to it. That's fine ... it implies that you're in agreement with its contents ... and I applaud your judgment.

You're confusing strategies with objectives.

The strategies we used were obviously successful ... because the objective was achieved ... today The Phillipines is a free, democratic country.

The same applies to all the other countries I listed ... many different strategies were employed ... and nearly all of them achieved their objectives.

And by the way ... I noticed your phraseology ... "what have YOU ever rescued?" Does that mean that you don't consider yourself to be one of US?

[quote=Bold Brooklynite]Not in agreement with the contents of your entire paragraph BUT I am in agreement with the last sentence. I do agree that the US HAS throughout our history done more for people of other lands than any other empire that i know of. But...It has also done so much to hurt others for her own selfish purposes.

Do I have to list off all of the countries that ended up being ponds in the US global chess match?

And why didnt you answer me on cambodia or the phillipines...or iran or iraq for that matter?

Didnt we install Marcos, diem, the shah AND saddam? Didnt we? Thought so.

Look at the bolded statement. A man that obviously has SOME intelligence cant be attempting to argue a subject that he knows so little about. Read up and then talk to me.

No i meant personally rescued. Are or were you military or red cross or any of that?

Yes ... I was.

My apologies then for my false assumption and I appreciate your service.

The Phillipines has backslid a great deal from where it was a few years ago ... just as Zimbabwe and Haiti have.

The U.S. helped it become free and democratic... their backsliding is their own doing.

Any other nitpicks?

Dala,
Since I'm on his "ignore"...and that's just dandy with me, read up a few posts to the one where he states, "I am confused'.

For what it's worth, "One who argues with a fool, only demonstrates that he is also one."

Good luck, Dala!

That's why these posts should never get personal ... unless you are an intimate friend of another poster ... you have no idea who you're communicating with ... and shouldn't make any assumptions.

You've undoubtedly noticed semi-literates on this forum calling other people morons and idiots. How ridiculous is that?

The phillipino economy is actually going into a really good phase-and its not US support that is the catalyst but rather korean mostly.

What the US did with Marcos there was criminal.

No it wasn't.

The Phillipines was in grave danger of being forcibly taken over by murderous communists. We did what was necessary to prevent that from happening ... and when that threat subsided ... we helped The Phillipines to become a democracy.

We employed similar startegies in South Korea, Taiwan, El Salvador, Chile, and Nicaragua ... fighting the greater evil first ... then resolving the lesser evil second.

Again, don't confuse strategies with objectives.

Back to the original question ... any other nitpicks in that list of 44 countries whom we've helped with our lives and our wealth?

thats bull****. you really do need to read up on your history.

The US exploited the phillipines with its puppet leader Marcos for thirty years. Marcos and the US investors got rich, the people stayed poor and the US Navy had a vital strategic base in Southeast Asia to protect its financial and political interest. The poor people of the Phillipines were only free to starve under the US supported oppressive rule.

The US ONLY allowed Marcos to come down when the region became less vital to the overall plan and when Anti Marcos sentiment became intolerable after the Aquino assassination or rather, CIA sanctioned HIT.

Again, you are too smart to argue a subject you know so little about.

You are correct. I do not know who you are. But I read your posts. This is my feeling based on your posts. Am I wrong?

Then why the heck are you so stuck on Sowell? Because he is that gadfly that perfectly fits your reactionary ideas?
And when you put up a site for everyone to read; Dont go to the lunatic fringe part of the cyberworld just because you think someone else has. I never said you were not knowlegable. People can gather all the factoids they want. Its what you do with all the data. And how one chooses what data is relevant and sound. And what signficant information one CHOOSES TO LEAVE OUT because it just does not fit your notions.
That is backwards kind sir. See I can be nice.

ANd you have a very good idea why "the strong black family" in the 1950's did not have the prosperity that Caucasian populations had. You just dont like the most probable explaination. Thats why you dont answer it.

Almost done here... Individuals can be extraordinarly bright immoral monsters... I think you would agree to that. So go back and read some of your hatred and absolute simplification of tough problems.

And finally, I can almost guarantee my educational background was everybit as rigorous as yours if not more so (if that is how you choose to play this game). My education continues though. Its never done. And I will freely admit that. That is why I come to this board to read the horse posts. There are a heck of a lot of people who live the game. I know they know more than I.

Philippines was better off having alot of US infleunces, ever since Clinton had them leave. Its been worse

Sorry ... my edit to my previous post didn't show up in time for you to see it first. Please go back and read it.

In any case ... would you have preferred a communist takeover ... in the Phillipines or anywhere else ... at a time when the Soviet intention was brutal world domination?

Now ... back to the other 43 countries ... any other nitpick?

Better off for whom? The middle to wealthy? most definitely! The majority that were poor?

The arrival of other foreign investors has begun a renewed period of growth for the overall economy. research shows that the poverty line is lower.

You lump all these countries in as if the intentions, motives and results of each one were at all similar. it shows a very narrow understanding.

You really want to use Nicaragua or El Salvador?

Nothing you say makes the least bit of sense ...

... either in the context of this thread ... or in the context of anything you or I have previously posted.

You make sweeping generalizations ... never failing to attribute motives to others ... never address the specifics of other posters' remarks ... and you're obsessed by a bogeyman-filled world of "reactionaries" and "bigots" and "hatred" which exists only in your fantasies.

You make it less and less worthwhile to respond to you with each successive post.

Kind of like the boogeyman-filled world of "leftists" and "terrorists" aiming to blow up every street corner?

Absolutely ... both were on the verge of a totalitarian communist takeover.

We repelled those threats ... and then helped establish freedom and democracy.

You seem to be obsessed with the minutiae of process ... and don't seem to consider end results to be important.

"Leftist" is a perfectly benign political description ... just as "rightist" and "centrist" are ... so why would use of it upset you?

As to "terrorists" ... we see the results of their handiwork on a daily basis. What word would you apply to people who murder innocent women and children ... who are also their countrymen and co-religionists ... just to win political power?

Better off for everyone, look at the sorry situation the Philippines is in now

Does anyone remember Iran-Contra...Oliver North?
Oh yeah! Democracy at work!
Reagan's near impeachment, anyone?

You mentioned Korea as a heavy investor in The Phillipines ... by which I presume you mean South Korea ...

... but did you stop to think about how and why South Korea became as free and wealthy as it is today? Do you think that The Phillipines would be benefiting from Korean investment if the enitre Korean peninsula had been taken over by the communists?

"minutiae of process" is great when you are talking about mere lives that arent your own.

Totally untrue.

Korea was a victory (not total victory but a moderate success) that the US can and should be proud of.

Would there be more and better lives today in those countries if the communists had taken over?

Certainly more if not better.