I don't give a crap what continent horses come from, and I don't think most of us do. The classic winner last year wasn't an American horse, and I think the people that had him on their tickets were just as happy as they would have been if he was an "American" horse. Cheering for horses based solely on what contintent they come from doesn't make sense to me.
We are losing our focus here. This was not an American day, or a European day.
It was GPK's day.

hey kev, who was that we were getting grief from about english channel a few weeks back??? glad the old boy showed them all his heels today.

i was going to say essentially the same thing..

dylan loses nothing in his defeat today, any race fan with an ounce of knowledge would know what he was up against. his arc is still quite a feat, and he's still quite the horse. there should be more like him, run them, let them try!! better than sitting in the barn wondering.

coolmore did just fine, running their top hope in the turf, and trying again in the classic with george. it didn't work out, but it certainly wouldn't work out if you don't run them at all.

besides, everyone still knows about giants causeway coming oh so close, and it has done him a world of good to have tried.
rewards are very small when there is NO risk involved. dylan is still a champ. glad he came over to put on a show.

I suppose you're right. I just didn't see any reason for running him. From a general fans point of view it was good to see him run, but for a european Dylan Thomas fan i'm not convinced it was the best thing. Well, i certainly didn't think so.

He had proved all he had to prove, and running here was only an after thought, anyway.

I would have preferred to see him bow out with a win, but you can't have everything.

I was already at the OTB when I called you. I was able to sneak out early.

dam it murtagh! ,

had the most horse and you are going to wait too late to be involved?

all the jockeys over-reacted to the soft turf and let the quarter go in 115 , no wonder a chump like kip deville wins , while the best hores excellent art is passing him AFTER the wire... :eek: :rolleyes:

I don't blame Johnny for the ride on Excellent Art, even though the horse should have won. I'm starting to think that the horse is very quirky, hence the reason why he now has looked unlucky in all of his defeats this season.

The horse didn't look like he wanted to change leads, which made him hang in towards the rail. Murtagh did everything he could to straighten him out, not once, but twice. If the horse had run straight, he wins.

As i say, i've now come to the conclusion that the horse is less than straight forward to ride. Maybe Spencer didn't deserve all the flak he has recieved for some of the rides he has given the horse this year?

If he returns to the track next year i will have to think twice before betting him, even though he does have a huge amount of ability.

Regarding Dylan Thomas - from an American fans point of view it was obviously a good thing that they decided to run him, as he is a horse which you guys haven't seen much. From a european view though it would have been better to scratch him. We knew he wouldn't be winning on turf that soft. That was his ninth run of the year and has been on the go since April. Someone on here said he could run five lengths below his best and still win, whether that is true or not, i'm not sure but he has run at least ten lengths below his best yesterday.

I know quite a few fans of After Market in America were hoping he'd be scratched for the same reasons.... because he didn't have much of a chance of soft turf and i respect their decision not to race the horse, even though, as a fan i would have liked to have seen him.

Yes, it was a very sporting decision from Coolmore to run him, but it must have been a very difficult one. I think they knew deep down he had no chance on that turf after a long, hard season. Fair play to them on making the tough decision, but at the end of the day i think it was the wrong one from a european fans point of view.

too kind...

Haven't read any part of this thread.

I'd say it has to be one of the worst BC Turf races in history.
2:36 and change. Lucky I was with friends to wake me up when it was time to place bets for the Classic.

Days and days of rain contributed to the slow times on the turf.

I couldn't agree more. The second the race was over, two things went through my head.

1.) Crap. I have to call Kev and swallow my pride.

2.) Even after that, I still think Dylan Thomas is the best turf horse in the world. Period.

Unfortunately they came to us, but EC won't be going to them. LOVE IT!

Must be a piss poor year for turf horses.

I would definitely agree with this statement.

Why in the world would I "look in the mirror" ??

I said somewhere on page 1 or page 2 something about EA being consistent, but Murtagh would have to watch about being too late.

If anything I should be looking at more races at this moment if I can continue to accurately predict subtleties.

I shouldn't even reply to this or share my thoughts. The internet is a place for witty/smartass remarks, not the finer points (or even obvious generalities) of racing!

In the actual race, a grade 2 or grade 3 animal wins, and Murtagh happened to have the most horse.

I don't even like Excellent Art.

I have to "look in the mirror" because I happen to be able to see when a jockey had a ton of horse and made a last-of-all run to come up short?

It is CLEARLY evident that the soft going caused the jockeys to adjust in terms of the pace and timing.
The race was totally changed. A grade 2 or 3 level horse won because he was up near the very slow pace and could handle the surface.

I couldn't even see the gallop out, but it sure seemed like EA was going to fly by him in a few strides.. Did Excellent Art suddenly pull up? Did Kip Deville suddenly bolt or something to prevent this? Honestly I can't tell on the replay and it has little if anything to do with what was evident between the gate and the wire.

good run down

It isn't easy to ship to another country and win at their game - no matter how good you are.

English Channel is the best at being relatively forwardly placed and using an explosive kick. He has basically been in top form , his only loss in the past 3 or 4 was when Trippi's Storm softened him up for Grand Coutier to run a year-best effort and a perfect late run. EC still ran big in that Sworddancer.
The lack of pace and the running styles of Dylan Thomas and English Channel set it up for English Channel.

If EC shipped to England next month in a full field , he probably finishes out of the trifecta. It just isn't easy to ship and change styles and adapt.
Doesn't necessarily mean one is better than the other. EC is the best 11-12 furlong American turf horse. Dylan Thomas won the Arc which speaks for itself.

english channel announced as going to hurricane hall. no stud fee as yet.
ins't that where bellamy road stands?

Do you think EC will make a good sire ?

I'm not saying he won't be a good stallion, but it's likely that his fee will be overpriced through his win at the BC.

As a good friend of mine said the other day. The only thing Dylan Thomas' defeat has done is probably push EC up from $10k to closer to $20k. That is probably true.

I'm not too familiar with his pedigree so i don't know whether he is dirt bred but better on turf, or whether he is a proper turf bred horse. If it's the later he could really struggle. I doubt the breeders in europe will be falling over themselves to use him.

He's pretty well bred for turf. I'm hardly an expert, but Smart Strikes have had some good success running on turf over here and obviously have handled dirt as well given the recent rash of graded stakes winners from that guy.

EC's female family looks pretty green. His broodmare sire is Theatrical, and the same mare (Committed) that produced EC's dam also produced the very solid turf horse Hap and was a champion runner on the grass.

What the hell do I know? It looks pretty turfy to me, but it seems that there could be some solid dirt potential, especially with the advent of synthetic surfaces hosting traditionally "dirt" races.

Well from what i have been reading, Smart Strike has had a good year (EC apart). If they don't price him too high, breeders might really like him in his first season just to get through to Smart Strike. That said, it doesn't always work like that. Over here, Cape Cross has been getting very good mares for the past two or three years, even though Green Desert is cheaper himself, i believe. No doubt the mighty Ouija Board has something to do with that, though.

My guess is that his fee will have rocketed from winning the BC turf.

They need to send Megahartz to EC next year. Will be the smallest race horse ever ...13 hands maybe:D

no

I would be skeptical of his chances and he will have to be really good considering where he will be standing.

Why is that Deb?

turf horses are always up against it in this country. then there's the farm he'll be standing. also just the incredible amount of competition out there. you have got to have plenty of support for a stallion to make it, will he have that? odds are against him being a success. it's tough, and in ky is that much tougher--and at a pretty new farm as well. where will his mares come from? how many have they got to support him? who is in the syndicate? the fact that he's going there i feel speaks volumes about demand for his services.

Good points and he was small which does not help. 1 1/2 turf horses do not usually do great here.

Your boy's new home doesn't even have a website. You better book a ticket to Korea so you can go see him in a couple years.

I know...I was checking it out last night. They got Bellamy Road and Artie Hang...I mean Schiller showing up there. Bootleg...

he needs to have horses do well on other than turf. and of course smart strike has had that this year. definitely can get anything with him.
but that's the daddy. whole new ball game with the boys, and we all know that not all sires of good racehorses become sires of sires.

If I was looking to breed a turf star I would MUCH rather breed to Shakespeare, he was a freak, he could win at a mile and a mile and a half, much, much better looking horse as well.:)

You wouldn't be dissuaded by Shakespeare's numerous health problems?

I would.

NT

i would as well.
it's not that i don't think english channel CAN be a good sire, it's whether he'll get the chance. his is well bred, and his sire has shown he can get them short to long, dirt and turf. but with english channel being turf both top and bottom, he won't get as much attention from commercial breeders as some other smart strikes would.
if you're searching for a route turfer, he's one to go to. sound as a bell, and a runner and champion. you could certainly do worse!!

No I wouldn't, he had tendon problems which ANY horse can sufferfrom, he's a big beautiful specimen and he showed he was very versatile in winning a Grade 1 in both a mile and a route, in spectacular fashion. I would be more wary of getting a shrimpy little hot head from English Channel.