Thank God. Almost 10:15 am here and I thought the morning would pass without a reference to the next mysterious yet omniscient "somebody who really knows horses" to validate an opinion.

I liked the horse going in, singled him and got a little taste of the p-3 ending there. Missed the p4 ... went 3 deep in the last, but left out the 3-1 winner. grrrrrrrr.

He ran great, imo. Dominated as he should have, imo. Look forward to his next. He may well be just the 23rd best 2yo in the barn, then again, he's a Graded winner.

The only intelligent thing written on this thread. I love "the greatest 2yr old in 10 years" comment. Guy needs to watch more races I guess. :p

That someone has horses with Todd's dad and she married me too. LOL. Good for you for making money, but I hope you aren't one of those "best 2yr old in last 10 yrs guys". That is the writing of a madman.

Yeah he might not be a top 5yr old three years from now either. WHO CARES!
Nobody talked about how this horse would do next spring. You sound like those of us who are excited about the horse predicted he would win the Derby and the BC Classic next year. Nobody did! We are smart enough to know that it is impossible to predict who will be good 3yo the previous July. This horse looks like a very good 2yo to me (and others). If he stays healthy I like his chances in some of the bigger 2yo races this fall. That is what I said to begin this thread, and I still think that. If you disagree with that, fine. But please don't make it seem like we were saying he was lock to win the Derby or anything like that. ArlJim is right. YOU were the one to bring up how good he would be as a 3yo.

Wonderful.

Answer me this.

If you owned a horse today -- right now -- ranked a bit higher in Todd's barn than CQ... say the #4 2 yo colt and let's say CQ is, oh, 6th --- would you truly rather own that colt as opposed to the Graded winner CQ? Right now, today? Just curious.

I am all for reason, and a reasonable person sees a nice horse, not "the best 2yr old in the last 10yrs". He's an ok horse, every single year we get these early budding 2yr olds and every year they flame out. His times are nothing special and I know for certain they think they have numerous better 2yr olds in their barn. That is just the Pletcher barn too. Last I checked other trainers have 2yr olds too. We haven't even seen Pletcher's $16M horse either. :D The Dogwood horse is a significantly better horse than CQ. I would expect Pletcher to keep CQ away from him as long as possible.

"TWO YEAR OLD RACING AT THIS TIME OF YEAR MEANS NOTHING."

I don't understand it when people say things like this.
I guess they mean it doesn't help you predict who will win the TC races 10 months from now.....which is obvioulsy true. But I mean, come on, they still mean something. It was still a stakes race. They do give out an eclipse award for 2yo and I would think graded stakes wins probably are a factor in determining that.
If all you care about is the TC races then I suppose you are correct, they don't mean anything. I enjoy watching 2yo racing for its own sake, and NOT because I may be watching a horse that might possibly compete in the Kentucky Derby.

I wonder why do they run races? If this race dosent move him to the top of the class, all the naysayers are just dealing with potential. This horse has produced and he has potentialmm also. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Most often it is a duck. This horse ran like a champ,has a champ potentia and a champ pedigree. In spite of all the complants about this horse. He is the target now.

It depends on what you want to win. Most of his big owners like a Tabor are playing to win the derby. I would take Cot's two year old over CQ in a second. He will win the Hopeful unless Scat Daddy is as good as they say. CQ will not win the Hopeful, might not even be in it.

No, it means 2yr olds change quickly and you haven't see most of them yet.
This horse is not one of the best "2yr olds in the last ten years" which is really the argument being made by one poster on this thread. That statement is insanity.

A bird in hand is worth.....

I'd go the other way, but, good luck! That's why they let us wager on these things.

The bird in the hand is the horse with a 99 beyer with little effort in his only race, not the one that won a 2yr old stakes race and is playing around in the low 80's with his beyers. The Dogwood horse is significantly more talented at this point than CQ. The fact that people are calling CQ great is comical.

i can't understand it either, especially when you consider that five of the past fourteen derby winners debuted in June and July. I remember that stat because I looked it up myself and posted it on the previous Circular Quay thread when he broke his maiden. This thread is almost a repeat of that one post for post. I guess some people just have no problem continuously regurgitating their insane statements.

We'll see what happens. I'm never overimpressed by big maiden wins where talent just overwhelms in runaway style. Never. I am also as likely to bet against a 99 debut-beyer second out horse as I am to pass the race. It's interesting, but horses that debut so high beyer-wise in free-running fashion often have a hard time running back to their number. So, beware. On the other hand, CQ did do some running yesterday where he had to make something happen and he showed some athleticism doing it. Great colt? Who knows? Very nice performance though.

If you mean "the best 2yr old in 10yrs" as a ridiculous statement you are correct. The "great" term is also ridiculous. I guess you don't need to be fast to be great any longer. :)

For what it's worth, I don't particularly disagree with this in general, but the horse being discussed with the 99 Beyer, Soaring By, did not earn his figure in " free-running fashion ". He broke a tad slow, was not rushed, and made a nice closing move to win off fairly easily. I have no real opinion of his future one way or another, and as always we need to see more races, but it wasn't one of those fast front running victories that often prove unreliable.

No, it actually was the most impressive 2yr old race this spring, which is why it makes me laugh when Oracle says CQ is the greatest 2yr old he has seen in 10yrs and that no 2yr old will beat him this year. Soaring By is a better horse right now, but anything can happen with 2yr olds.

Hoisttheflag, we get it. You don't like the "best 2-year-old in 10 years" comment. How many times are you gonna say it?

The only reason I think most people are down on CQ is because they heard Scat Daddy or whoever else was the top 2-year-old in Pletcher's barn. That may be true, but as I remember it, Nick Zito said SUN KING was his best 3-year-old last year. Better than Bellamy Road. So even the trainers don't know for sure what they have until the horses all prove what they can and cannot do on a track.

How ****ing hard is it for you people to comprehend that someone's opinion is just that? No one is right or wrong here. Oracle, others and I see something special in CQ. A few of you don't. That's totally cool with me, but people like Hoisttheflag won't be able to die in peace until Oracle rescinds his "best 2-year-old in 10 years" comment. Give it a rest..

I read Oracle bashing the Cunningham guy and going off on his little "accountablity" for what you write diatribe. You want to bash people you better be able to take it. :eek:

No, by ridiculous I meant this one, "TWO YEAR OLD RACING AT THIS TIME OF YEAR MEANS NOTHING." Try telling that to Sea Hero, Grindstone, Real Quiet, Charismatic, and Giacomo. They all started racing in June or July.

And why is it that all racing has to have TC implications or it means nothing. It's still horse racing and the races pay off just the same as the ones that the big guys are running in. Only a limited number of races involve those horses anyway.

To be fair to Nick, I'm not certain Bellamy Road was in his barn yet when he said that. However, it is more than a valid point in general.

You need to take a class in logic. Who cares when any horse started racing? The point is that 2yr olds change overnight. These horses aren't even close to grown and what they do now is zero indication of what they will be like in a month from now, let alone a year from now. 2yr old horses can improve or regress in a matter of weeks. The fact is most 2yr olds are still unraced so to say that "as long as this horse is in training there won't be a two year old who will touch him" is RIDICULOUS.

I saw his race differently. A half-step slow, ok. But he had open racetrack in front of him the entire race. Outside post and superior ability combined with no traffic issues, especially at Belmont.... to me that is as free-running a trip as a horse who breaks on top comfortably. Don't get me wrong, very impressive. But again, just a maiden win in fast time with a great trip doesn't put the horse above a graded winner. Solid bet-against for me from an inside post vs tougher next out.

You seem to care when a horse starts racing because of you oft repeated maxim "TWO YEAR OLD RACING AT THIS TIME OF YEAR MEANS NOTHING.".

I merely pointed out to you that the two year old races this time of year can have TC implications and I pointed out to you that even without TC implications these races mean something to the people racing the horses and to the bettors that enjoy the races. That they might change in a month or so, or a that a better one might come along, who cares? That's all part of the handicapping analysis.

I did not make the statement you keep quoting, so I'm not going to comment on it.

Hoist I think you need counseling. This is a little over the top isnt it?
Glad the wifeys friend brothers dad, blah. WHo cares. You think it impresses us that you globbed onto someone who owns horses. Gee, what a hero. It looks as if thats your only qualification because you sure havent posted anything yet that gives us insight or though, thats for sure.
You are angry because you came here and talked smack about Tiger being the best three sprinter in the land, and I told you Anew would crush him, and he did. Sore loser who knwos nothing. Wanna talk accountability? be back in two seconds with all your ignorant Tiger posts you clown. Gimme a sec to copy them here on teh thread.

I realize you like to bash people and attack them personally because of who their daddy is or who their wife is (it isn't your fault that you are really insecure, I am sure it goes back to your childhood) but you made some statements about CQ and I am going to never let you hear the end of it when he gets trounced. As for Tiger, you never said Anew would beat him, in fact you said Anew who beat him earlier was just a claimer. I have a reason to root for Tiger so I will continue to root for him. LETS SEE THE POST WHERE YOU SAID ANEW WOULD CRUSH HIM. Mr. Accountability.

yeah, i couldnt believe it....... i had him and was ready to crumble my tote. that horse is a freak, that is one running fool.

Circular Quay is obviously a very nice 2-year-old, and the best thing about him is that he possesses a two-turn pedigree unlike the other nice juveniles we've seen thus far this summer (Other than Merv Griffin's Golden Missile colt)...he obviously likes CD with both wins coming there in a very professional manner from off the pace - which is not an easy thing for babies to do - and with the BC Juvy being in Louisville this year you certainly have to stamp him as the favorite until he is beaten...

Personally, I think there are horses out there that have shown more talent to this point - like his stablemates Minefield and Scat Daddy, but for a Thunder Gulch to go 1:09 and change in his second start as a two-year-old and beat Grade III horses in the process is impressive and a sign for things to come if he can stay sound....I promise you that this one won't prove to be most effective around one turn...

As for his race yesterday, he proved best late BUT he did get a little fortune....the race really set up for him with the quick and contested pace...

Nice colt...

This is kind of like when Jim Dolan promised Knick fans they would make the playoffs. It's not exactly a " promise " you can keep.;)

:D ....It is a figure of speech, of course....

I'm not an Isiah Thomas fan so you can guess why I believe they have failed, but that is another story....If they have any small imagination at all that he can coach better than Larry Brown than they need to put down their crackpipes and try another sporting profession such as basket weaving or something...

Back to racing:D , Circular Quay is not only by Thunder Gulch...his first three broodmare sires are Belong to Me, Shadeed and Alydar....I would be confident in saying that he should not excel at six panels or any distance under a mile, but I've been wrong before :D

I'll tell you what, I will be far less surprised when Circular Quay wins a Grade 1 around two turns than I will be that he even made it that far. Personally I don't put a very high over/under on the number of starts he has left.

In fact, even the Knicks over/under is considerably higher for next season.

Do you know of soundness issues he has? Unlike most babies that run at CD, I have never seen this horse in person in the paddock...I missed both of his races....is he a pretsel or something?

I have zero inside information about this horse ( I rarely have any specific info about horses.....or at least correct info. I get plenty of bad information ).

Win early 2YOs just don't seem to stick around and their record from that barn is not good. I hope I'm wrong and he hangs around for years and does well.

Statistically speaking you are probably right on this one.

It appears that we have a lot of people who either married people in the business, or know people in the business. And if you don't love the horses associated with these people, or the trainer that these people use, you are definitely a bad person, lol. And Heaven forbid you get excited about a horse that these peoples spouses or friends have nothing to do with, or about a horse that their spouse or friends dont employ.
The sad part is that these guys dont know a damn thing and their posts make that quite obvious. High Finance in the Belmont Hoist? What were you drinking that day? Please spare me teh attempts at feigning as if you have any idea whatsoever waht you are talking about.
Tell you what, why dont you and Bold Ruler get together, put together a list of horses and trainers we are allowed to root for, and get back to us so that we can comply with your wishes.
No wait on 2nd thought Hoist, go and get your ******* shinebox.

Right...I'm hardly going out on a limb.

I have far more respect for the opinions of those high on him should he turn out to be a genuine star than I would for my own if I am unfortunately correct about my prediction. Regardless of how it may seem, I took the 3:5 shot. Agree or not, Oracle took a stand. He just can't take that many more with 2YOs should this one fizzle;) .

I think he has a tremendous chance to stretch out later on in the year with his pedigree and running style. Loved his sire as a horse and think he is underrated as a sire. WIll be a three year old? Stats say probably not as lately any two year old with a summer/fall campaign doesnt last to the following spring, regardless of who trains him. I'm not starting a quay for HOY thread or anything like that.
Hoist who is it that we are allowed to like?

Actually you were the one who said the two year old division was wrapped up by this horse. So I guess all people involved with 2yr olds should just give up. I don't remember who I picked in the Belmont but I don't ever see you picking anything until after the race. Let me guess, you are one of those people that go back and research everyones posts so you can call them idiots but forget your own posts. Heh, not your fault, I am sure it stems from your childhood. :eek:

You can like anyone you want and so can anyone else, but you and your "daddy's money" comments and attacks on peoples families is going to get you attacked when you make ridiculous statements like "there won't be a two year old who will touch him" or he is the greatest 2yr old in 10 years. Most 2yr olds have yet to run, some are already faster, and this horse is slow. You are just pushing this crap to make it look like you are the greatest judge of horseflesh alive. A nice 2yr old ran a good race but on two races you have proclaimed him the Eclipse winner.

Show me where I did that you liar. Thats really all you are, a liar trying to distort or misrepresent what I said.