i'm out in SH*TTY california:D

thanks though. Invasor just made my day.

First of all, picking that Lava Man would not do well outside of Cali is hardly something to brag about. Everyone knew that already, and MANY people (including me) were saying that sending him to this race was a big mistake ever since it was announced. He stood no chance today, and everyone that follows American racing knew that.
Also, saying that he "showed his true class today" and calling him a "claiming horse" is just wrong. He is simply a horse that does not ship and run well. Period. It makes no sense for people to come on here and say "HE IS A SUPERSTAR!!!!" every time he wins another G1 or G2 in Cali, and it makes no sense for you to come on here and rip him when he runs poorly elsewhere. That is just what everyone expected.
He runs well at the 3 SoCal tracks.
He runs poorly everywhere else.
I would berate you more for not understanding this distinction, but since the horse's own connections can't seem to figure that out, I guess you are in good company.

I totally disagree with you.I don't think it is a shipping problem at all.I think he just can't handle the tougher competition,Period.He hasn't raced against anything tough in California,except poor horses.To me a graded race in California is just what I said,a high priced claiming race.I think it's great that he wins there and made so much money,but greed took over his owners decisions.Anytime he goes somewhere against something decent,he gets demolished,like today.He is not the caliber of horse that everyone thinks he is.Would I like to own him?You bet.He would be at Hollywood right now instead of wasting his time in Dubai in a futile attempt to satisfy the greed of his owners.

Well I certainly agree with you that it was ridiculous to send him to this race. In fact, I said that several times in the "Lava Man to Dubai" thread.
But your suggestion that he has no problem shipping, and that he simply can't "handle the tougher competition," is quite frankly, just wrong. It wasn't simply Invasor and Berbardini (the better competition) that beat him in the BC last year. Brother Derek also defeated him easily, but when those two squared off in Cali, Lava Man was the clear winner. His speed figures also dip considerably when he ships.
I am not saying that he would be able to defeat the Invasors of the world if the races were run in SoCal, but he would certainly be more competitive. He never runs the same races outside of SoCal that he does IN SoCal. That is jut a fact.
Let's hope they never take him out of SoCal again. Whatever way you look at it, that was just an absolutely ridiculous decision.

he is to cali what silver train was to belmont.

Brother Derek is a Piece of sh_t,So beating him does not add any glory to Lava Man.In fact it demotes him even more in my book.
But I agree with you,Let's keep him in SoCal,where the competition is easy for him.But it will be interesting to see how he recovers from this trouncing.

But regardless of what you think of Brother Derek's ability, the differing results when the two squared off is one indicator (one of MANY I might add) that Lava Man really does run better races in SoCal than he does when he leaves SoCal.
My larger point is this: It does not makes sense to me to refer to a horse that has won 12 stakes races (including 6 G1s) as just a "claiming horse." If he is a claiming horse, than how would you describe the horses actually running in the claiming races in SoCal? Or what about the ones in NoCal, or any other track that is a step down from the SoCal tracks?
He is a horse that can be pretty good in the right conditions. When his connections foolishly take him away from those conditions, he is very ineffective. That doesn't make him a bad horse.....just one with very specific limitations.

Because those Stakes races were filled with sub par horses,as are most SoCal races.I don't care if they were graded,name some horses from ANY of those races that have gone on to do ANYTHING.I AGREE he runs way better in SoCal,and it is because there is no competition there for him.Brother Derek,Giacomo?Super Frolic,Good Reward,Ace Blue?What a bunch of Garbage.What have ANY of these horses gone on to do?In his last race he beat a six year old who just passed the N2X level.WOW Impressive.
I have said before,my opinion of SoCal racing is extremely low,and it is my opinion and I stand by it.To me it is all bottom of the barrel racing out there.But like I said,I would love to own him.Against all that crap out there,his races are virtual walkovers.

Giacomo did win the Derby...

ALostTexan

FLUKE!!! And went on to do what?

Okay you are really not getting it. So never mind.

That was a joke. Just relax.

I agree that Lava Man was in over his head, either via the shipping or the caliber of company, but I cannot agree that SoCal horses are "Claiming Horses". But, to each his own...

ALostTexan

Im here....never have been one to run and hide. His running today did nothing to deminish my admiration for him. Never claimed he was gonna win the race...never claimed he was as good as any of the Euros. He just happens to be may favorite race horse...plain and simple.

He did finish in front of the "eclipse winner":rolleyes:

And Randall....I believe your little Cacique showed his true colors in the BC turf in the fall...so you have very little room to talk:D

and I am sure you would HATE to own a horse like him that has earned $2.5 million.....

You of all people should know and understand that some horses simply do not ship well.

I would expect more from someone of your knowledge and stature to knock a horse like him....

That a boy Kev, don't take no **** from no one.....STAND PROUD Beautiful!!!

omg i can't wait for the 3rd post you make here because you're getting progressively more bitter.

Tom, there isn't a person on this board that wouldn't love to own a horse like EC. If they said they wouldn't...they are lying.

Don't have to tell me that

If I owned him I would run him every two weeks during the Arlington meet in their optional claimers and win like 10 races for the whole meet, just with him

No bitterness Brian. He didn't win....plain and simple. Whether it was an off day, the shipping, no lasix or the simple fact that he was most likely outclassed...it is what it is. He will race again soon and I will root for him just as hard then, as I did today.

I don't know bro...he is 0 for 2 at Arlington....:o

Actually, I thought he'd run better than he did. I thought that Lava Man would do better too. But I certainly thought EC would be in the top half, if not crashing the exotics.

This was one of the days I really liked him.

If I owned him and ran him in a optional claimer, and he lost, he would be going straight to FAIRMOUNT.

Thanks for reminding me of my bitter defeats because I wanted to believe he was a good horse.....

I talked to Gander this morning and told him that Admire Moon scared me a great deal.

For him to back up like he did...kinda makes me think something happened. Trapped...etc..

Bethani was kind enough to let me hear the race call on her computer from over my cell phone. She said he was a bit rank, as he has a tendency to be...and like she said...you can't race like that over there...those horses are too good.

Even if it does come back thay maybe he trapped or something of the sort, I am not foolish enough to think he was good enough for those horses.


Like I said...he lost...so it is what it is...

he is a good horse....ask the owner...I am sure he has no complaints.

I don't think he's the classiest horse in there, but I think he (on paper) should have run better than he did. I don't think he was THAT outclassed to run how he did. I think his class was among the better ones in there honestly. For me, it will be a tossout.

We shall see...hope they point him back for a defense of his Woodford Reserve on Derby Day.

Man we got Pearl Harbored, except it was not a suprise.

The Lava Man haters have got to explain why horses do not come west to take him on. The purses certainly are not too small. So bring some horses in and beat him with the money on the line. It is complete stupidity saying a horse winning 5 million dollars is bad. Its not like they prohibit horses from entering like some of the Hong Kong races.

I just watched the race. Lava Man got a nice start, nice placement, no excuses. He just died. Im glad he basically got pulled up. He was toasted. Sorry about the Channel to Kev. I was rooting for our boys, but butts were kicked.

I don't think there are that many horses in the US that are good enough to justify the risk and expense of shipping out to CA to take on Lava Man. And the ones that are good enough can find races and purses to contend that do not involve shipping so far only to run in a different climate.

I don't understand why people are so afraid to admit that West Coast racing is completely different from racing in the rest of the country. Whether it's the surfaces, the drugs, Trevor Denman's voice, whatever, West Coast success doesn't often translate to East Coast and Midwest success, and vice versa. They're two different beasts. Considering that, and considering that Lava Man is way better in California than he is everywhere else, where's the upside in shipping horses out west?

MONEY. If he really is that weak. This is the point. People have stated he is a just not that good. If he really is easy to beat, come take the purse. Hell you dont need a good animal, Lava Man is bad.

Well in California he is not.

He has run awesome races in California and horses wont ship because they know this. So in a nutshell, he is a money horse in the right spot. That does not make him bad. Read these posts. Its too easy to bust on a horse right after the slaughter. I hate the band wagon effect. So I take the other side.

J...sorry if it came across as bitter towards you. I thought what you said was quite funny and it didn't bother me a lick. I just find it puzzling how well informed people can talk about the horse like he is zippy chippy:eek: :D

Granted EC ran a howler, but im a bit surprised looking back that he was in the 9f race. For the 12f races in Dubai, it pays to have a bit of speed and you dont neccessarily have to stay the trip. Same could be said for Lava Man!!

Kev, who knows why they chose the shorter of the two races?? I wondered that myself.


anyways..this quote on drf.com

"He never gave me any indication he was going to do any running," said jockey John Velazquez. "He got in the gate and fell asleep."

That quote tells me all I need to know. But again, I am not foolish enough, nor blinded by my admiration enough, to think that if EC had run his best race, that he would have gotten to the winner. Those turf horses over there are just on a different level than horses such as EC, Miesques Approval, etc...
Our level of turf racing in America can't hold a candle to the Euros.

It is a different level of turf racing, but I also think it was an off day for EC. On his best I think he has the talent to have made an appearance on the board, like third or fourth. That's was what I was expecting.

Go get em big fella :D

I felt the same way a couple of weeks ago when people were bashing our girl. The resumes speak for themselves. It's so funny when a very very good horse has a bad day and all the people that bet against them in their previous wins come out to say they told you so. They told us 8 or 9 wins and 3 or 4 million dollars ago that whoever the horse in question is at the time is a tomato can. EC just didn't have it yesterday. Nuff said....Hopefully RP won't tie up between now and next Saturday and she will bring it home....

That would be enough to keep me away.

.........yeah, all he has done is bank 4.6 mil so far......

In that race it was the Japanese that busted the world up. Asian racing on the turf is clearly very good.

exactly, Flashy did the best of the Euros in 6th.. and Youmzain was our best in the 12f race in third!! not a great day for the euros!