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-   -   tha lava man thread.... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6713)

redransom 11-09-2006 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
I think it's a number of reasons. First, everyone knows but hates to admit that there is a media bias towards the East Coast. There are far more major media markets on the East and the majority of the population of our country lives east of the Mississippi. Nine times out of 10, if u have a horse that wins the Suburban, Whitney, and JCGC vs. a horse that wins the SA Hcp, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic, the Eastern one will be considered the better horse. That's just the way it is. A Vosburgh winner will be considered better than an Ancient Title winner. A Turf Classic winner will be considered better than an Oak Tree Invitational winner. The list could go on and on.

Second is that there is a different tempo to the racing out here in California than there is back east. Out here, if u don't have speed, u can forget it. It's the name of the game here. U can run in Florida or NY and have 23, 47 speed in routes and be a lone front runner. U bring that out here and u will find yourself with plenty of company on the lead at best and at worst, five lengths back. I don't think that many trainers or horses are prepared for the faster tempo of racing here and they get caught with their pants down.

Third, as BTW alluded to, is the prestige of the races. Many of those big NY races are 100 years old or so and they have far more prestige in them than the races out here. There is more prestige to winning a race at Saratoga than anywhere else in the country. Ask 100 owners would they rather win the $1 million Delaware Hcp or the Go for Wand at Saratoga worth less than half of that amount and I'd bet u would get at least 80% in favor of the GfW. If the choice is between the GfW and the Hirsch at Del Mar, it might be 90% in favor of the GfW.

All points very well taken. I talked to a trainer friend of mine about this very thing this morning; he said, really, it isn't about East vs. West as much as it's just planning races for a (good) horse based on a circuit. Good trainers don't think their good horses need to take their tracks with them, but that aside, if someone is based in, say, New York it just makes much more sense to plan a campaign around where he normally runs. The same thing applies to California-based horses. And there is a strong Eastern bias when it comes to the Eclipses, but that's just geography.

I will say, however, that my future Hall of Fame trainer friend (and former classmate) did say the level of competition out here is a big factor in determining whether or not to ship. His point was why ship all the way across the country and know you're going to have to beat extremely tough California horses when you can stay home? Tracks have nothing to do with it, he said, and if anything the polytrack is now an added incentive to come out here and roll the dice. I think I'll take his word on it.

ateamstupid 11-09-2006 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom
I will say, however, that my future Hall of Fame trainer friend (and former classmate) did say the level of competition out here is a big factor in determining whether or not to ship. His point was why ship all the way across the country and know you're going to have to beat extremely tough California horses when you can stay home? Tracks have nothing to do with it, he said, and if anything the polytrack is now an added incentive to come out here and roll the dice. I think I'll take his word on it.

Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars. :rolleyes:

Cajungator26 11-09-2006 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars. :rolleyes:

HEY NOW! Leave out Preachinatthebar... I love that horse. :p

ateamstupid 11-09-2006 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
HEY NOW! Leave out Preachinatthebar... I love that horse. :p

Very beautiful. Not very fast.

Cajungator26 11-09-2006 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Very beautiful. Not very fast.

I know... he's like Silverfoot to me. :o

I loved Silver Charm too... (he was fast, though.) LOL

redransom 11-09-2006 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars. :rolleyes:

That's the best you could come up with? I thought you were actually a follower of the game. Now I can see that can't be the case...

FairPlay 11-09-2006 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars. :rolleyes:

Of course you omit, Brother Derek, T.H. Approval, King's Drama, Seek Gold, Perfect Drift and Giacomo, who, while not superstars, are Grade 1 winners vanquished by Lava Man during his 2006 California Campaign.

ateamstupid 11-09-2006 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairPlay
Of course you omit, Brother Derek, T.H. Approval, King's Drama, Seek Gold, Perfect Drift and Giacomo, who, while not superstars, are Grade 1 winners vanquished by Lava Man during his 2006 California Campaign.

The defense rests. If you think any East Coast trainers aren't shipping out there because they're scared of facing that crew, plus the four I mentioned.. Ugh..

blackthroatedwind 11-09-2006 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
The defense rests. If you think any East Coast trainers aren't shipping out there because they're scared of facing that crew, plus the four I mentioned.. Ugh..

That's some scary contingency.

I got frightened just reading their names.

philcski 11-09-2006 01:31 PM

I tossed him after I realized the "B" wouldn't be in his running line for this race.

hoovesupsideyourhead 11-09-2006 01:34 PM

bro derek lol...now thats funny.......oh wait here some more killers ..polish times,oceanus,...cambriocoursa...lava didnt run a step in the p classic the year i was there......yes a 3rd string jock from the east can do well as can 3rd string stable from the east...

redransom 11-09-2006 01:36 PM

Two words...

St. Liam.

ateamstupid 11-09-2006 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom
Two words...

St. Liam.

Two words. Non sequitur.

redransom 11-09-2006 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Two words. Non sequitur.

LOL! How do you figure that? Because it's true? That's a perfect way for me to end this "discussion" on a positive note for me. Thank you!

ateamstupid 11-09-2006 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom
LOL! How do you figure that? Because it's true? That's a perfect way for me to end this "discussion" on a positive note for me. Thank you!

Yeah, you really proved a lot. :rolleyes:

LARHAGE 11-09-2006 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
I liked him a lot. He was training great. :o

I love Lava Man, he had a season most owners would dream of, so he can't ship, lots of horses don't ship. Sky Beauty couldn't ship, Silver Train, heck I have had horses go absolutely nuts when just switching stalls, it just effects some horses. Lava Man is a nice horse, I'm certainly not going to disparage him, there were horses that finished behind him after all.

LARHAGE 11-09-2006 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept
Lava Man is a notorious stallrunner.. When he leaves home, he'll pace and run the stall endlessly. It's just his make up. He's not comfortable in unfamiliar surroundings and frets at the upheaval. No way to cure that in the midst of a racing career, and no way to get one to perform his best if he has that composition.. The horse handlers here can better expand on this...

Exactly right, I mentioned that, I have a horse at my house that paces and screams and digs holes in her stall so deep you could bury a body in them, and that is if I merely switch her stall at home!!!

LARHAGE 11-09-2006 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

ateamstupid 11-09-2006 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE
Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

I said in the past year.. Pico and Lost in the Fog were very special horses, no doubt.

SniperSB23 11-09-2006 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARHAGE
Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

Bob and John was a little piggy that loved the slop.


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